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Theresa May - Hypocrit

(40 Posts)
CardinalSin Sat 04-Mar-17 14:51:18

Did anyone see her speech in Glasgow? It doesn't take very much to make the case for the EU with it;

"Politics is not a game and government is not a platform from which to pursue constitutional obsession. It is about taking the serious decisions to improve people's lives. A tunnel vision nationalism, which focuses only on independence Brexit at any cost, sells Scotland the UK short.

As Unionists, our job is clear. We know we are united together by a proud, shared history, but we are also bound together by enduring common interests. The United Kingdom European Union we cherish is not a thing of the past, but a Union vital to our prosperity and security, today and in the future.

The Union I am determined to strengthen and sustain is one that works for working people across England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. A UK Europe which everyone can feel secure in. A Union in which our national and local identities are recognised and respected, but where our common bonds are strengthened. Where difference and diversity are celebrated, but where those things we share are celebrated just as much.

Because at the heart of the United Kingdom European Union is the unity of our people: a unity of interests, outlook, and principles. This transcends politics and institutions, the constitution, and the economy. It is about the values we share in our family of nations. Our pooling and sharing of risks and resources, our social and economic solidarity. That social union is the glue which holds us together.

We should never forget that the people who benefit most from solidarity across the United Kingdom European Union are not the strong and the successful, but the poorest and the most vulnerable in our society. We are four twenty eight nation, but at heart we are one people. That solidarity is the essence of the United Kingdom European Union and is the surest safeguard of its future.

Let us live up to that high ideal and let us never stop making loudly and clearly, the positive, optimistic, and passionate case for our precious union of nations and people."

jaws5 Sat 04-Mar-17 14:58:01

Either consciously hypocritical or totally stupid not to make the connexion. Six months ago I would have liked to think she was making a point about the disaster that Brexit is, but I've now realised that she's incapable of irony.

honeysucklejasmine Sat 04-Mar-17 15:02:53

I do hope someone repeats it back to her in parliament.

ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire Sat 04-Mar-17 15:57:21

May is someone who has been put in a position of power as superior, officious bossy types are often mistaken as possessing gravitas and intellect. Late last year people were just relieved she wasn't Leadsom or <horror> Gove. She always submarines, which is possible in the home office but won't wash as PM. The lack of substance, planning and inability to listen or debate will lead to her downfall hopefully sooner rather than later. She can't remain unengaged.

PigletWasPoohsFriend Sat 04-Mar-17 16:01:14

If only there as an effective opposition.....

RhuBarbarella Sat 04-Mar-17 16:12:11

I think she just made a great speech in support of Scottish independence. After Sadiq Kahn and Jeremy Corbyn made their points about the racist SNP and that the Scottish government should deal with local issues. . Ruth Davidson going on about the disgraceful state of education in Scotland... oh yeah let's learn how to deal with schools from the Tories!
Teresa May seems utterly incompetent. It should not escape het that alienating the Scots is not very wise at this point if she wants to keep the union and betting on winning a referendum ... that didn't really go wel with het predecessor.

scaryteacher Sat 04-Mar-17 22:01:19

Submarines are silent and deadly though Chestnuts, and you don't know they're there until they are in firing position and can torpedo you with accuracy.

Perhaps Cardinal would like to tell the Greeks just how much the EU is doing for the poor, needy and vulnerable there? I'm sure they'd love to hear about the social and economic solidarity that supposedly exists within the EU.

SwedishEdith Sat 04-Mar-17 22:08:04

"Late last year people were just relieved she wasn't Leadsom or <horror> Gove."

Exactly. She's seems to have forgotten that she's only there because everyone else fucked off.

WrongTrouser Sat 04-Mar-17 23:18:28

I don't see the hypocrisy myself.

Peregrina Sun 05-Mar-17 08:18:32

And Johnson, realised that the job at present was a poisoned chalice, and chose to keep his powder dry - with me mixing my metaphors in the most horrible fashion.

InfiniteSheldon Mon 06-Mar-17 10:02:55

I can't see the hypocrisy?

prettybird Mon 06-Mar-17 10:47:28

Hypocrisy was demonstrated by the fact that you could rewrite her speech, substituting UK for Scotland and EU for UK and you'd have the most eloquent case for not leaving the EU.

By her own logic (as outlined in her speech) there is no economic case to leave.

But she continues to insist that Brexit means Brexit confused

So why can Brexiteers be allowed follow a course of action that has no economic basis, but is a based on a "feeling" of lost sovereignty (as confirmed in the White Paper, which acknowledges that it only "felt" like we'd lost sovereignty), when Scots are not allowed to dream of the same thing (and they have lost sovereignty - as confirmed by the Supreme Court judgement which confirmed that the Sewell Convention had no legal standing) ?? hmm

WrongTrouser Mon 06-Mar-17 11:26:28

Hypocrisy was demonstrated by the fact that you could rewrite her speech, substituting UK for Scotland and EU for UK and you'd have the most eloquent case for not leaving the EU

No, that doesn't demonstrate hypocrisy. It demonstrates that if you rewrite the speech as you suggest, it reads as a case (opposing views are available) for remaining in the EU.

If I say "I am voting Labour because I believe it is the best for the country, and despair of anyone who voted otherwise" the fact that you can replace Labour with Conservative and it would still make sense doesn't make me a hypocrite for not voting Tory.

By her own logic (as outlined in her speech) there is no economic case to leave

No, because she wasn't talking about the EU, she was talking about the UK.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rules of language do not allow us to replace key words in what people say, and then claim that is what they said.

So take the above, you could replace Labour with Tory and then say I gave a credible reason for voting Tory hmm Just the same logic.

We should never forget that the people who benefit most from solidarity across the United Kingdom/European Union are not the strong and the successful, but the poorest and the most vulnerable in our society

So for example, some people would agree with the above sentence with UK in it, but not with EU (me for instance). Just because it's true (if you believe it is) with one, doesn't make it true with the other.

I also think it is the case that TM supported remain and does believe there is a good case for staying in. However, like many others, shevaccepts that the country has democratically taken the decision to leave. This is not hypocrisy - it is accepting that in a democracy sometimes you have to accept decisions you wouldn't have chosen.

InfiniteSheldon Mon 06-Mar-17 11:36:11

extremely flawed logic prettybird

CardinalSin Mon 06-Mar-17 12:35:45

Its not flawed. Wrong's rather trite comparison is facile.

If you do the substitutions, it makes the same arguments for staying in the EU as she is making for Scotland to stay in the UK.

I know you don't want to see that, but "la la la I can't hear you" seems to be a common response from Leavers.

WrongTrouser Mon 06-Mar-17 13:28:59

Okay, you keep to your logic then. I can't be bothered arguing with people who just resort to being rude if others disagree.

Anon1234567890 Mon 06-Mar-17 13:51:35

Not getting the hypocrisy, the 2 unions are not the same and so you cant substitute them and say its the same thing.

The SNP has been in power and focused on independence for nearly a decade. The UK government for only 9 months.
The SNP supported and lost a referendum on independence. The UK government didn't support leaving the EU but is enacting the result of a referendum.
The UK is 310 years old, the EU only 24.
The UK countries all have a similar culture, language, laws, work ethic, history, wealth, education, drive on same side of the road, pay our taxes/healthcare in the same way, etc. the EU countries not so much similar.
The heart of the EU was supposed to be trade. The UK, well its government spends more money on people in Scotland, N.Ireland and Wales than it does people in England because they need it more. Does Germany do that for Greece?
How is the EU helping the unemployed youth in Greece, Spain, Italy. Almost like Germany is feasting in the EU trough while the others starve.
Scotland doesn't have to pay to have access to the UK market, the EU charges us £250 million a week for the privileged.

EU and UK are not interchangeable.

WrongTrouser Mon 06-Mar-17 13:54:20

No, this is just too ridiculous.

If you do the substitutions, it makes the same arguments for staying in the EU as she is making for Scotland to stay in the UK

Yes, if you change the words, so TM is talking about something she isn't talking about . You can take all sorts of speeches, change the words in them and then they mean something completely different. Who knew?

Because at the heart of the United Kingdom European Union is the unity of our people: a unity of interests, outlook, and principles

Well, that works if you believe that a poor Greek has the same interests etc, etc as a rich German. Presumably it doesn't work for the majority of the people who voted in the referendum as they voted to leave. One of the main principles of the EU is fom. The majority of people in this country (and not just leave voters) are not happy with fom.

This transcends politics and institutions, the constitution, and the economy. It is about the values we share in our family of nations. Our pooling and sharing of risks and resources, our social and economic solidarity. That social union is the glue which holds us together

Again, fine if you really think this is how the EU works. Not such a good argument if you are not so convinced that the countries of the EU are really pooling resources and risks, or indeed don't want to do so.

We should never forget that the people who benefit most from solidarity across the United Kingdom European Union are not the strong and the successful, but the poorest and the most vulnerable in our society

<snort>

We are four twenty eight nation, but at heart we are one people. That solidarity is the essence of the United Kingdom European Union and is the surest safeguard of its future

I don't feel anymore "one people" with someone from Poland than I do an American or someone from Norway. And I don't see the future of the EU with "ever closer union" as something I want to safeguard, not with the UK in it anyway.

Peregrina Mon 06-Mar-17 15:38:53

I also think it is the case that TM supported remain and does believe there is a good case for staying in. However, like many others, shevaccepts that the country has democratically taken the decision to leave. This is not hypocrisy - it is accepting that in a democracy sometimes you have to accept decisions you wouldn't have chosen.

I can accept the first sentence. By a small majority, the country said it wanted to leave the EU. Where the hypocrisy comes in IMO is May, supposedly a Remainer, is not saying that it's her duty to explore all the various options and then putting it to the country. She has decided that curbing immigration is the be all and end all which suits her own agenda, (as evinced by her Home Office performance) and the UKIP tendency in the Tory party.

Peregrina Mon 06-Mar-17 15:40:25

First two sentences that should say. I honestly don't know what Theresa May does believe, apart from an apparent hatred of immigrants. My impression is that she backed the side that she thought would win.

Anon1234567890 Mon 06-Mar-17 17:07:01

Where the hypocrisy comes in IMO is May, supposedly a Remainer, is not saying that it's her duty to explore all the various options and then putting it to the country

Are you deliberately ignoring history? We did exactly that, DC negotiated the best possible deal he could from the EU, then he put it to the country. The people turned it down, preferring to leave.

I also see to remember BoJo advocated saying we were leaving first, then doing the negotiations before having a referendum on stay or leave. There was very little public support for that option.

We got exactly what we wanted and still voted to leave.

How do you know TM hasn't explored all the various options? I would suggest she has and concluded the EU just wont let us stay in the single market unless we accept everything else and that is just pretend Brexit.

Given we have already had a renegotiation and then a referendum, the only sensible further steep is to ask parliament to accept the deal or no deal.

Where is the hypocrisy?

Peregrina Mon 06-Mar-17 17:23:22

My recollection is that Cameron negotiated a deal, after the Referendum vote had been fixed.

As for May - the options are so complex, she can't possibly have explored even the major ones. Recall that her White paper was cobbled together at the last minute and was thin on detail.

LurkingHusband Mon 06-Mar-17 17:25:42

.

Slipperyknickers Mon 06-Mar-17 17:39:17

Wrong trouser and anon I completely agree a small group of posters have been all over the threads on mumsnet trying to slander people who were on the winning side of referendums. They have been running around beating their hairy little chests all week!

Sallysadlyseescertainty Mon 06-Mar-17 17:44:20

She's a hypocrit, alright. If you can't see that, you're probably glossing over the facts.

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