We don't have to pay a penny to the EU under Brexit!

[Olympiathequeen]

Latest news. There is no legal requirement to pay a penny and no court in the world that will enforce punitive 'divorce' penalties on us

We probably will pay something, but they can feck off with their 60 billion pounds.

I just hope it will curb some of the more rabid EU urges to 'punish' us for a democratic choice to no longer trade within rules that no longer suit us.

[GraceGrape]

But the report also states that not to pay would put is on a very bad footing when setting up negotiations.

[GraceGrape]

Put us

[WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid]

What grace said

[Olympiathequeen]

But it also puts us in a stronger position because they cannot force us to pay up to £60 billion no matter what the outcome.

So previous belief was.... worst case scenario no deal and a £60 billion bill to pay.

Now. Worst case scenario, no deal and a 12% hole in the EU budget which must be paid by the richer countries and the poorer countries will get less.

Maybe will concentrate the minds a little?

[howabout]

Not sure why anyone ever thought otherwise tbh.

The primary reason I can see that TM and co have been forced down the hard Brexit opening position route is the completely unrealistic intransigence of EU spokespeople wrt this and the "4 freedoms".

[Olympiathequeen]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/britain-could-face-60-billion-9905271

Lots of recent articles with eu leaders and speculation saying this is what we will have to pay. Even the BBC mini series 'Brexit. A guide for the perplexed' said £60 billion.

France's hardline negotiators may think twice if it means France having to contribute more to fill the gap we won't be paying.

Everyone in Europe, including us, need to be realistic and stop the hardline nonsense. It's in no ones interest.

[YourOtherLeft]

I foresee the EU coming on MN to let off steam on the "Co-parenting with narcissist / difficult ex" thread.

[LouKout]

We can pay it all to the NHS now then. Or not...

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

So if we leave the EU and don't pay what we owe because they can't make us how will we be viewed by others who lend us money, and by those we are so eager to trade with?

[howabout]

Olympia the BBC analysis I saw came out closer to 35 after offsetting assets we would need to be repaid by the EU against budget contributions up to leaving date which make up most of the 65 (and sound more like ongoing cost of current membership than leaving fee). From memory all the other figures are small fry.

Maybe something to learn from the MN relationships board - the ex playing hardball usually "wins" sadly and the only way to counter is to act reciprocally.

[Mrskeats]

It's was not a democratic vote
Lying is not democratic. Are you still expecting the 350 million a week to the NHS?
The naivety on this is breathtaking
Brexit will finish the NHS

[ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire]

Anyone incredulous that the Lords are having to ascertain the legal position on this? What have the government been doing? We've had weeks of media telling us we need to pay 60 million before negotiations can even begin. Totally unchallenged by the brexiteer government. Teresa May is so stupid she would probably have handed over 60 million without any deal. If the government had any sense they would press to secure a deal for trade and all the rest BEFORE even triggering article 50 and certainly before handing over another penny. And I'm a remainer.

[howabout]

Chestnut I think this is an example of TM remaining silent and letting others convey the harsh facts to the other side. I have no doubt that the UK Government and the EU are all well aware of the legal position despite what is being said and not said in public. I don't agree with you on withholding funds to secure a trade deal as we are still members and are still benefiting from existing trade arrangements which in terms of reciprocal access we are seeking to maintain.

[FourToTheFloor]

Agree with Chestnuts and also remainer.

I think TM is 100% not the right person to lead Brexit. The only reason I think she hasn't been chucked by her party is absolutely no one with half a brain wants to be a the helm of this.

[ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire]

She is a nasty dictator, working in complete silence (apart from Brexit mean Brexit robotics) and totally unopposed. She is thick to boot! It's like a frigging banana republic.

[ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire]

howabout I'm talking about not committing to future funds, not existing costs. I absolutely agree we will have to pay what we are paying up until we leave. It will also cost us handsomely afterwards if we are to retain access to the bits we need. I'm really struggling to see the point of all of this Brexshit nonsense, not least because of the monopoly on resources it is going to need. Teresa May is acting as though the last government were nothing to do with her, it is incredulous.

[howabout]

... and yet she negotiated her way to the Tory Leadership in a week without a public spat and is trouncing JC and the PLP in opinion polls and by-elections. I would far rather have her in my corner than on the other side.

[Devilishpyjamas]

Well we're shafted either way - so whatever.

[ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire]

For now she is. Let's see how she fares when people (inc her JAMS) start to lost their jobs and everything costs more. We'll see how far her two responses "Brexit means Brexit" and "will of the people" take her then.

[Olympiathequeen]

The point is they can't make us pay anything, I've no doubt we will pay at least £15 billion and probably far more, but it gives us some bargaining strength. Don't forget this is a 26/1 negotiation not an equal 1/1 one. I just think minds need to be focussed on getting a good deal for everyone, and not an exercise on 'punishing' a member for leaving.

The Lords have reached an agreement on this as have the government lawyers.

We need to pay what we are stil benefiting from and will pay for some access to EU markets, but it will be more our terms than previously.

[Mrskeats]

When will the penny drop that this is a disaster for us all?
We are on a destructive path. What you are discussing is window dressing.

[Peregrina]

Teresa May is so stupid she would probably have handed over 60 million without any deal.

No, I don't think she would do that. She would refuse to pay, and then berate other countries for refusing to do trade deals with us, because we are not reliable and renege on agreements. You only have to consider her trip to India with much fanfare - how wonderful the trade deals we were going to get. It all went very quiet when India said they wanted visas for their citizens.

No matter - in 20 years time, India will have forged ahead and they will be outsourcing their call centre work to us, because we will be cheap.

[Mrskeats]

Totally agree peregrina

[Efferlunt]

Yes to what Peregrina said. Not only that but we will have to accept a crappy deal with the USA where they will destroy the NHS and food standards and a lot of other than NHS besides.

It makes the elites very happy but the majority of people are deeply screwed

[Postagestamppat]

I can see the tories going for a payment and then using it as further evidence of the evilness of the eu and as a new excuse for further asterity. It is horrendous to watch this unfold. The effects of years of cuts are coming home now and it will only get worse.

Why do people think that TM is this thick? Apart from the fact that no-one else with any sense would want to actively seek to take on this poisoned chalice, I haven't noticed any lack of intelligence. Pig-headed-ness and inflexibility, but not stupidity.