Applications from EU nurses have fallen by 90%.

[ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire]

Since the Brexit vote. On BBC news just now. Saying they feel unwelcome. The ones who are here also making plans to return.

We already have massive nurse shortages across the whole of the UK, but particular in London. It's another job that not enough British people want to do. I appreciate some of that is because the pay is shit for the amount of education, responsibility, emotional and physical labour involved.

Of course, this won't lead to a pay rise for our nursing staff. They'll just import cheaper labour from countries who can ill afford to lose their trained workforce.

There has also been a 25% fall in U.K. Nursing student applicants since this government decided to start charging nurses to do their training. This has put off mature students who made up a significant proportion of applicants.

Another fine cock up of Teresa May and her Brexiteers.

[WidowWadman]

May wanted to reduce net immigration at all cost. She's achieving that. Can't see how anyone would want to move to the UK right now.

[sepsisandAKI]

Couldn't agree more, it's a sorry state of affairs.

To top it off most of my nursing colleagues, myself, included are looking for other jobs. I work in acute care and we are all at breaking point

I don't know what's going to happen to nursing in the next 5-10 years but I think we all need to be concerned.

[sepsisandAKI]

Oops extra comma!

[muddypuddled]

The government are dismantling the NHS but by bit.

Not related but noticed your name sepsis, I'm a sepsis nurse moving away from a critical care background

[ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe]

Applications have fallen because the pound has fallen in value and it doesn't make financial sense for them, it is because of Brexit, but I doubt it's because of feeling unwelcome.

[Fawful]

Applications have fallen because the pound has fallen in value and it doesn't make financial sense for them, it is because of Brexit, but I doubt it's because of feeling unwelcome.
With the price of living in London I doubt nurses from Europe have more money to spend at the end of the month than if they'd stayed in their own countries. And I don't think they come to the UK for money in particular...?
My nurse DB is leaving not because he is feeling unwelcome (although he's not feeling welcome) but because the conditions in the wards he's been working in have been so crazy he's afraid he's going to kill a patient and his anxiety is through the roof. He feels sorry for his patients having to be treated at his hospital. As far as he's concerned it's all collapsing (unfortunately).

[ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire]

And 50% of the existing UK workforce will be eligible for retirement by 2020.

[DorkusDelonghi]

There used to be the prestige of working here that also drew EU staff. That will also disappear with the brain drain, loss of medical research, etc. Why would they come here?

The future is not looking bright.

[MrsDustyBusty]

That is a truly excellent result. Brexit means fewer forrins clogging up the hospitals. Wasn't that part of the plan?

[FetchezLaVache]

It's not just nurses, IMO - I know this is purely anecdotal, but as a freelance translator I used to translate a lot of doctors' credentials for the BMI. It always used to be a couple a week steady away, with a massive peak just ahead of the referendum, but since then I've done about two. The future, as Dorkus said, is not looking bright.

[FloweringDeranger]

Nurses, doctors, teachers. All essential public sector jobs that have been systematically attacked and undermined in both fact (pay, overwork, etc) and reputation (all those media and politicians' attacks on how useless, inefficient and wasteful the public sector is). Well what a surprise. Jobs needing highly educated, responsible people being turned into public whipping posts and now nobody wants to do them. Add in the problem that the few people who can actually afford the required education nowadays are those with many other alternatives (due to their wealth), and the wonder is that anyone is still willing to do them at all.

[averylongtimeago]

Well we have taken back control, no more nasty forriners taking all our jobs!

[jaws5]

doubt it's because of feeling unwelcome That's a big factor. Why would they want to come here now? It used to be an exciting move, European doctors and nurses knowing they'd be working with British and other EU doctors and nurses and loving the exchange of experience and ideas. Now they are advising each other not to come, and many are planning to leave. I know this first hand.

[jaws5]

A consultant friend was telling me just the other day how valued EU doctors have stopped coming, in a fields with a desperate shortage of staff. Friend wonders just how they're going to cope.

[Redlocks28]

Crap, isn't it?

Education is at breaking point as well-head teachers are coping by putting teaching assistants in class teacher roles, not telling the parents and paying them buttons. I expect that will do that with nurses/health care assistants.

[TheSmurfsAreHere]

Oh dear, you mean that people with qualifications such as nurses do not NEED to come to the UK?
IM sure that will be OK as they are taking the work from British nurses that would love to be able to work.

oh it's not how it's working? Bugger...


Serioulsy, all EU citizens are feeling unwanted atm. So yes they are planning to go back. UNless they have a British spouse and children and are somehow stuck here.
But yes they are still feeling unwanted.
And frightened when you read how the UK is treating non EU citizens (and have no issue splitting families where one partner is British and the other isn't, children or not for example)

And disgusted to see that plenty of people are going on a massive demonstration against Trump coming because he is racist and look at what he has done re visas. But haven't lifted a finger when TM has done the same for non Eu immigrants and IS threatening to do the same for EU immigrants.

So yes, 'THE PEOPLE' have said loud and clear they want their country back with no immigrants here. So now 'THE PEOPLE' will also have to deal with no nurses, no doctors no teachers, no fruit pickers, no care workers, etc etc.
But I'm sure it will be all OK.

Because the UK will ask other people to come and replace them.
Oh no! They are immigrants again!

[jaws5]

And disgusted to see that plenty of people are going on a massive demonstration against Trump coming because he is racist and look at what he has done re visas. But haven't lifted a finger when TM has done the same for non Eu immigrants and IS threatening to do the same for EU immigrants
Absolutely agree with that. In fact, I went on the first anti-Trump demo and I was thinking the same. I will now concentrate on my own personal struggle as a EU national living here and all the anxiety that entails, knowing that most of those protesting against Trump won't be marching on the coming anti-Brexit/pro-EU citizens protests.

[OhtoblazeswithElvira]

And disgusted to see that plenty of people are going on a massive demonstration against Trump coming because he is racist and look at what he has done re visas. But haven't lifted a finger when TM has done the same for non Eu immigrants and IS threatening to do the same for EU immigrants.

This is the big elephant in the room in Mumsnet at the moment IMO.

[Caprianna]

Agree and IMO Trump and Brexit are linked. Its the same emotions behind it in most cases except s few folks who voted Brexit for a few niche reasons but didn't grasp the full picture

[jaws5]

The SWP who organized the last Trump protest last Saturday will not be supporting the EU citizens day of protest on the 20th Feb, or the anti-Brexit march on the 25th March, I'm quite sure of that as EU is "capitalist". Yep, they won't be printing placards this time.

[whatwouldrondo]

Smurfs And disgusted to see that plenty of people are going on a massive demonstration against Trump coming because he is racist and look at what he has done re visas. But haven't lifted a finger when TM has done the same for non Eu immigrants and IS threatening to do the same for EU immigrants.

On what do you base that disgust? In my experience a lot of people have been only too aware of how inhumane and racists TMs policies have been, and have worked hard not just on individual cases but to challenge the policies too, including at the ballot box. This is particularly true of young people who have seen how overseas students, and young people who made the mistake of falling in love where one partner did not have a visa have been targeted. At the last election the seat I live in was a swing seat and I know I was not the only one shouting at the Conservative "researchers" who kept ringing that no I would not be voting for David Cameron because he would carry on restricting immigration. I know because the researchers apologised and said it was clear it was not a campaign promise that was going down well in our constituency......

[whatwouldrondo]

I understand that EU nationals would not want to come here at the moment, not just because of racism, I know quite a few British doctors and nurses who have left for Australia. They left not just because of the pull of adventure but because working conditions had deteriorated to the point where they felt they were dangerous and very stressful. There is a BBC story about Blackburn Hospital A&E making just that point doing the rounds on Facebook at the moment and they are tagging each other out of relief that they are out of it.

[Wayfarersonbaby]

Yes, given that it was overwhelmingly the older generations who voted for Brexit, I can only say that if I was an older person looking at a future where I was likely to need more and more health and social care the one thing I wouldn't want to do would be to leave the NHS and care sector even more short of staff than it is at present. The stupidity is mind-boggling....

Lots of people have no idea how long it takes to train doctors and nurses. Even if we threw money and resources at the problem now, it would take fifteen years before we could train up enough people even to start to fill the current skills shortages. And that's not remotely likely at the moment given that the Tory attitude towards higher education is "raise the fees, remove the bursaries". Why on earth would a bright school kid want to go into medicine, nursing or midwifery given the current job conditions, pay, and the amount of debt they'd incur to train? The numbers are dropping, that's why we need to import overseas staff, ideally from countries with reliable and good STEM higher education and training.

My local GP surgery can't fill posts for GPs for love nor money. Big swathes of GPs are retiring and loads are going out of the sector disillusioned by the constant churn of reorganisations. The latest wheeze from NHS England is getting rid of the CCGs that have only just been created, and instead joining together all individual GP practices into super-practices and then making them all run as private business entities.

In my local hospital, huge numbers of the medical and consultant posts are overseas appointments due to skills shortages.

But never mind, when all those good folk voted Leave because they wanted to get rid of the immigrants, I'm sure they had Greek and Dutch oncologists and Spanish specialist chemo nurses in mind. And plans about what to do without them.....no?

[80sMum]

I fear it's highly likely that the NHS will crash and we will start to see elements of privatisation creeping in. It cannot continue on its current course, surely? There simply isn't enough money.

A radical shake up is on the horizon, I think.

[Mistigri]

And disgusted to see that plenty of people are going on a massive demonstration against Trump coming because he is racist and look at what he has done re visas. But haven't lifted a finger when TM has done the same for non Eu immigrants and IS threatening to do the same for EU immigrants.

May, for all her many faults and despite her hideous views on immigration and immigrants, has absolutely not done the same as Trump.

May has attempted to restrict non-EU immigration in plainly unfair and sometimes illegal ways, for which she deserves condemnation, but she has not enacted blanket bans on specific nations with the intention of targeting a specific religious group, nor has she cancelled legally-issued visas or removed people's legally-acquired indefinite leave to remain without due process, nor has she banned refugees from specific countries in defiance of international law.

Utterly clueless comparison. Do you even read the news?