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Westministenders: Johnson defends his President whilst we try to defend Britain

(999 Posts)
RedToothBrush Tue 31-Jan-17 11:25:45

Theresa and Donald
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First come Brexit
Then comes the Ban
Then comes the
Removal of Human Rights
… Damn

(Shamelessly stolen from a protest sign)

A couple of weeks ago people were still asking why we were talking about Trump on a Brexit thread. I think the answer has made itself all together too apparent.

What is happening in the US is not going to stop. It’s not going to get any better any time soon. The situation is grave with suggestions there has been a coup. What happens next is not going to be pretty. American institutions are struggling. The rule of law has been undermined. We are not talking about a developing country. We are talking about the country which has stood for freedom and democracy.

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

We have but one question. How many of our ‘British Values’ will have to be sacrifice for the special relationship?

Make no bones about this: Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate.

Let us also not forget ‘Good old Boris’ pretending to be Churchill and calling the EU Nazis and Hitler during the Referendum and on several occasions since. He has now had the bare faced audicity to stand in the House of Commons and call MPs out repeatedly for ‘trivalising the holocaust’ or for making comparisons with the 1930s when they saying they have been told this by survivors of the holocaust. It is SHAMEFUL. I also note how many times Johnson referred to Trump being democratically elected as if this makes all the difference and he can’t possibly be a dictator if elected.

Why do they want to use the parallel themselves and HATE it when its used for things they use? Fascists hate being pointed out as fascists.
What would happen if you put it to the public? You have a choice, The EU or Trump? What would they say. At its most basic this is what Brexit is now. You can not hide it or disguise it any longer.

Get used to this. Be prepared to protest, to keep challenging, to keep calling things as they are. Fatigue might set in, but we need to keep on. This is for the long haul.

Today the a50 Bill starts in parliament. It’s not looking good, as it looks like MPs will completely fail in their DUTY to hold the government to account and will not have the balls to add amendments to the bill.

If it passes without any, get worried. It is not just about the EU.

It never was.

Motheroffourdragons Tue 31-Jan-17 11:30:33

Thanks Red, for the new thread. I can't keep up smile

I don't know if this has been posted but the Russian suspected of handing over the information on Trump's Russian shenanigans has been found dead.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/27/mystery-death-ex-kgb-chief-linked-mi6-spys-dossier-donald-trump/

The party line is he has had a heart attack, but who knows ?

user1484653592 Tue 31-Jan-17 11:33:01

.

unicornsIlovethem Tue 31-Jan-17 11:42:29

Thank you Red. The only light point I can see if that Trump is forcing the Brexiteers to reveal themselves much more quickly....

MercyMyJewels Tue 31-Jan-17 11:44:19

Holy fuck Mother. My head has exploded. Steele must be crapping himself

MirabelleTree Tue 31-Jan-17 11:44:51

Thanks Red. I have emailed my Remain Tory MP and left him in no doubt about my views. Will do no good but I have done it.

Motheroffourdragons Tue 31-Jan-17 11:48:41

Yes, Mercy. He is in hiding though isn't he ? I'd think best for him to stay there.

Although of course it really could be natural causes, I expect we will never know.

PausingFlatly Tue 31-Jan-17 11:58:04

Reposting your links to yesterday's debates, Red. (Thanks for these, I want to read through before I email my MP.)
Transcript of the debate lead by Boris Johnson.
Transcript of the debate lead by Boris Johnson.
hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2017-01-30/debates/70D7676A-311F-4EA2-9425-C0B1B4443A26/USImmigrationPolicy

Transcript of the Emergency Debate lead by Ed Miliband and Nadhim Zahawi
hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2017-01-30/debates/448738C3-927F-481B-8340-809810F30595/ChangesInUSImmigrationPolicy

PausingFlatly Tue 31-Jan-17 11:59:00

Double Boris shock

I humbly apologise for inflicting him on you twice.blush

Peregrina Tue 31-Jan-17 11:59:01

Johnson MUST know that Hitler was democratically elected. Still, telling a straight story was never his forte. He will no doubt treat his performance yesterday as one of his jolly japes.

You have a choice, The EU or Trump?
Sadly, and with the help of May and her quislings, Arron Banks, Farage etc., a majority will go for Trump. Until it's too late. In the years to come, they will be crying, " We didn't know". Or pretending that they never went along with it.

Even if my protests appear futile, I will be able to look my grandchildren in the face and say that I did speak out, I was prepared to stand up and be counted.

PausingFlatly Tue 31-Jan-17 12:00:05

And a link back to the previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2838318-Westministenders-Ding-Ding-Ding-All-Aboard-Boris-s-Brexit-Bus-gets-going?pg=1

HashiAsLarry Tue 31-Jan-17 12:11:53

Thank red

Before the referendum one of my friends kept saying how he wished we were holding after the US presidential elections, because the outcome from that would show us whether we needed a united Europe more than anything a politician said. He wasn't wrong.

boredofbrexit Tue 31-Jan-17 12:16:43

well done RTB, how creative!

Peregrina Tue 31-Jan-17 12:34:36

The one thing I am pleased about is that people have turned out to protest against these racist policies. It's a welcome change from the race hatred of the past seven months.

As with the petition against Trump, although there is a correlation with the high numbers signing the petition and Remain votes, this is not always the case - a good number of Leavers in Kent and the West Country must have signed, which again is a welcome sign.

RedToothBrush Tue 31-Jan-17 12:38:46

Matthew Holehouse ‏@mattholehouse
In long letter, Donald Tusk tells EU not to "pander" to Trump. "We must stand up for our dignity."

OUCH

RedToothBrush Tue 31-Jan-17 12:55:49

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil
As I've explained on This Week + Sunday Politics, Trump sees Germany as currency manipulator to make German exports artificially cheap 1/2
Now FT reports Trump's top trade adviser accusing Germany of using a “grossly undervalued” euro to exploit the US and its EU partners 2/2

John Hudson ‏*@John*_Hudson
Update: a source says more than 1k diplomats have signed memo criticizing Trump executive order on immigration

www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/31/the-tories-are-looking-to-copeland-for-endorsement-of-mrs-mays-plan-for-brexit/
The Tories are looking to Copeland for endorsement of Mrs. May’s plan for BREXIT

Election strategy in Copeland part of wider Brexit strategy for a mandate

RedToothBrush Tue 31-Jan-17 13:03:14

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt
Davies voice is in a right state. Our best hope is it fails completely.
It's going to be a long couple of days.

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Already a backbench Tory has intervened on David Davis to express concerns about the A50 Bill - the consequence for nuclear safety
Euratom does matter - Cameron signed a trilateral US-Euratom deal last year. Safety standards underpin Sellafield
Davis case is Euratom, though a separate treaty, uses Commission and ECJ. Interesting that this is pushed in context on Copeland by election
And @JWoodcockMP picks up immediately the potential jobs implication to Moorside nuclear deal in Copeland from leaving Euratom treaty

TuckersBadLuck Tue 31-Jan-17 13:05:37

Now FT reports Trump's top trade adviser accusing Germany of using a “grossly undervalued” euro to exploit the US and its EU partners

Wasn't their story last week that the Euro was about to crash and they were planning on shorting it? Now it's “grossly undervalued”?

TuckersBadLuck Tue 31-Jan-17 13:07:57

The US story that is, not the FT's.

MitzyLeFrouf Tue 31-Jan-17 13:09:40

.

prettybird Tue 31-Jan-17 13:15:26

Thank you RTB for such a succinct, passionate and heartfelt summary.

Was going to finish the first para with a smile, but then decided it wasn't appropriate because the subject matter and the consequences are so serious and potentially far reaching sad

Peregrina Tue 31-Jan-17 13:16:42

Euratom does matter - Cameron signed a trilateral US-Euratom deal last year. Safety standards underpin Sellafield

The Trade Union which covers the Atomic Energy Authority and I assume therefore Sellafield, has sent out a strongly worded letter which it suggests we send to our MPs. I can't see May's aim to take us out of Euratom winning many Tory votes in Sellafield.

RedToothBrush Tue 31-Jan-17 13:17:23

Ian Dunt ‏*@IanDunt*
DD confirms we're leaving Euratom. Insane. A completely insane thing.
Because of course the vote on June 23rd was a mandate against cooperation on nuclear proliferation & science research.
Watch DD on Euratom: the sight of man starting to sink into the mud of endless complexity.
On an impossible timetable he set himself. Like a Greek myth, but with really dull regulations instead of monsters.

Ian Dunt ‏*@IanDunt*
No way am I going to be able to sit through two days of this. I'll throw myself out the fucking window.

(I <3 Ian Dunt).

Laura Kuenssberg ‏@bbclaurak
May sitting on the front bench between Davis and Johnson

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
Starmer:"this is a short Bill, a simple Bill, and for the Labour Party a difficult Bill". Tory benches laugh. Starmer tries candour strategy

Peregrina Tue 31-Jan-17 13:19:19

I think there may be legal challenges in the pipeline re Euratom.

DebbieDownersGiveItARest Tue 31-Jan-17 13:20:15

Sorry red usually like your thread intros, parts of them at least, but I don't like this one at all. grin

Our leadership looks weak in the face of this. We look like we are not only appeasing but endorsing. For what? A trade deal that he could revoke in 30 days?

* Cosying up to Trump threatens our national security. It threatens our democracy. It ruins what little moral authority we have left. It threatens our ties with Europe who we DO still need to have a relationship even if we are outside the EU. This is not world leadership. This is appeasement. This is cowardly weak and downright desperate*

Nato.

POTUS hates the EU, he hates federalizing nameless bureaucracies.
He has no respect for Merkel at all, that is clear, Holland etc have not even been mentioned.

Who has the POTUS ear?. Theresa May does and if you can't understand and see what she did in an hour meeting by standing there for all the world to see - incld PUTIN...." Mr President I think I am right in saying you are 100% behind NATO"....Then either your lying about how much you care about security and world peace or you - (not you personally red grin) - flip flop when it suits an agenda.

One Minuet NATO is crucial to everyone, when Trump says he is not behind it, May gets a real coup, only she can from the EU nations as Trump doesn't like anyone else but this coup is down graded, dismissed and suddenly NATO isn't important anymore. confused

What moral authority does the EU have being its major trade partner? Turkeys HR don't matter I suppose, the country that was quite modern but that is now going back to the dark ages.....
Oh its the EU doing trade deals so thats ok...it doesn't matter about their morality or ours - when we are in it hmm

Turkey isn't some small backwater state - its crucial and vital member of NATO IT which has tremendous power over the EU due to migrant crisis.

But when Merkel wants to sidle up to them to make dodgy deals - again thats OK shock

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