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Brexit safety net

(68 Posts)
Niamer Wed 25-Jan-17 14:38:55

Leavers and remainers - this is for you. If you are a "GET US OUT NOW!" kind of leaver, this may not be of interest.
If we fast forward two years, the EU may just about be getting round to putting the kettle on and talking about deals. Our time will be up. So we leave with nothing.
Most reasonable people I imagine, would like a get-out clause to give us the option of remaining in the EU if Brexit has gone belly up. As a parent, I am not prepared to take gambles with my children's future, even if I am confident things will go my way.
This campaign is asking for MPs to opt for an amendment to the article 50 process that gives us the safety net to be able to remain, if the people agree that is the best option. represent-us.uk. Please, if you agree with the idea, take the time to contact your MP about it. The more pressure is put in them, the more likely they will take notice. There is a template letter to use.

Kaija Wed 25-Jan-17 14:54:20

I agree, there should be a vote on the final deal, and the options should be to accept it or to remain.

But this all depends on revocability of article 50 I think, and this hasn't yet been established.

Mistigri Thu 26-Jan-17 06:26:04

As a parent, I am not prepared to take gambles with my children's future

Encourage them to study science and a foreign language. A science graduate with near-fluent French or German will get work in Europe post Brexit. (Unfortunately, your weird education system seems to discourage scientists from being linguists as well).

Like Kaija says, the revocability of A50 isn't established. No point in a second referendum if there's no going back.

JamieXeed74 Thu 26-Jan-17 10:37:35

Hmmm, a second referendum would be stabbing ourselves in the foot. Why would incentivising Barnier to give us a really bad deal be good for the UK.

This is just another campaign for remainers to keep us in the EU. Fortunately we are leaving the EU so our options are to either do a good deal with them or walk away. Either way we will be able to work with the rest of the world and we will have our independence back. A win win for us and our children

Kaija Thu 26-Jan-17 13:34:38

Walk away to what?

iwanttoridemybicycle Thu 26-Jan-17 13:37:12

Jamie, yes economic suicide is a great win win for our children. Stupid remainers for not realising that eh. hmm

squishysquirmy Thu 26-Jan-17 13:42:17

So Jamie, if Article 50 is triggered at the end of March, and (worst case scenario) on the first of April 2019 we wake up with no trade deal in place with the EU (because we walked), what happens to 44% of our exports? How many days before we miss the 53% of our imports that come from inside the EU? WTF happens to British businesses, especially those with complex supply chains?

squishysquirmy Thu 26-Jan-17 13:43:54

There must be a better negotiating tactic than standing on a metaphorical ledge shouting "we'll jump! we'll do it!"

RortyCrankle Thu 26-Jan-17 13:50:18

I voted Leave, I want us to Leave, I have contacted my MP to enquire if he will be voting in Parliament in support of us leaving, which he has confirmed he will be doing. There will be no second referendum. No I don't want a get out clause - I just want to get out.

Do you honestly think Germany won't want to trade with us their shiny BMWs and Mercs and all the other billlions of euros of stuff, or the French won't want to sell us their wine and cheese etc, ditto other countries? It's laughable to make such a suggestion.

squishysquirmy Thu 26-Jan-17 13:59:37

Yes, it would hurt them too (not as much as us), so lets hope that they have common sense and put their economy first, instead of irrationally giving up trade with the UK.
Lets hope that all 27 members agree on exactly what want (or we'll walk!).
Let's hope that none of them (or any of their regions - like Wallonia) use their vetoes to oppose the trade deal we demand.
Let's hope that their ability to act rationally and in their best economic interests isn't affected by politics within any of those 27 countries, and that their voting public is well informed and unlikely to apply pressure on their country to oppose the trade deal Britain demands.
Let's all hope really, really hard.
Because decisions are always made for rational, non-emotional, economic, reasons, aren't they?

Mistigri Thu 26-Jan-17 14:07:16

Countries may wish to trade, but practical obstacles may get in the way. If the UK drops out of the EU without a deal then it HAS to impose WTO tariffs on EU imports, and vice versa, because otherwise it will be in breach of WTO rules ("most favoured nation" rules - outside a formal FTA, you can't just randomly ignore WTO tariffs).

This will mean a hard border for goods, customs checks, rules of origin declarations etc. It will, at best, involve a period of upheaval in which exports and imports will be subject to serious delays at ports and with drastically increased administration costs for exporters and importers.

At worst, it will paralyse trade with the EU completely, and by the time trade routes are opened again, competitors will have taken the UK's market share.

Deadsouls Thu 26-Jan-17 14:07:44

I accept that there are many good and valid reasons that some people who voted leave must have for wanting to vote leave. And I do know, (just from my own friendship/acquaintance circle), that the leave voters put loads of research into their vote, reading up and so on. So they must have had really good reasons for doing so. I am not as well informed as I didn't put loads of research into my own vote. For me it was clear.
Can someone give a really simple explanation, 5 points or so, why leaving the EU is of benefit to the UK? And why staying in the EU was detrimental to the UK?

JamieXeed74 Thu 26-Jan-17 14:32:59

How many days before we miss the 53% of our imports that come from inside the EU?

Our imports don't stop if we dont get an deal confused, it just means we trade under WTO rules rather than EU rules.

JamieXeed74 Thu 26-Jan-17 14:40:10

Can someone give a really simple explanation, 5 points or so, why leaving the EU is of benefit to the UK? And why staying in the EU was detrimental to the UK?
1) We can end free movement of people.
2) We can do trade deals with other countries.
3) We won't have to make massive budget contributions.
4) Our supreme court will be sovereign again.
5) Farmers will be free from the CAP

Deadsouls Thu 26-Jan-17 14:52:38

jamie

Thanks will absorb this information. Though will have to look up CAP

FlaviaAnsell Thu 26-Jan-17 15:15:29

My chief reasons for voting Leave were:

I don't want to be part of any organisation that thinks the Euro is a good idea

I think that sooner or later the EU will fall apart and I'd rather we got out in an orderly fashion ahead of that.

How many days before we miss the 53% of our imports that come from inside the EU?

We might find out that we don't actually need all of them, or that we can get them elsewhere, or even make them ourselves. And cutting imports is generally better for the economy. You'd do better to worry about our exports to the EU.

Bolshybookworm Thu 26-Jan-17 16:00:29

Yeah, because life in Britain during the wars was GREAT when imports were restricted. Bring back rationing! We are not remotely self-sufficient in terms of food and yet we're separating ourselves from our closest and largest supplier. It's utterly insane. The EU has strict regulations on food standards as well, which I'd rather not lose. Anyone fancy importing more food from China?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

RortyCrankle Thu 26-Jan-17 16:02:12

I did a massive amount of research before I voted, even though I had been patiently waiting for an opportunity to vote for a very long time. I vowed to stop posting my reasons on here but for one last time here they are, well some of them:

1. Sovereignty - not controlled by undemocratic, unelected, unaccountable EU officials.

2. Control of our borders which does not mean EU nationals currently working and paying tax here should be asked to leave - they should be allowed to remain. It means stopping thousands of economic migrants from a hotch potch of countries entering the country never to be seen again, working in the black market, not paying tax. Nor does it mean not taking refugees from Syria - we are doing so - families from the refugee camps to which the UK has donated hundreds of millions of pounds.

3. The money currently spent on membership of EU can be used for the benefit of those living in the UK.

4. Regeneration of the fishing industry.

5. Freedom to make trade deals with many other countries.

6. Freedom to make our own laws.

7. It's possible the EU is going to implode in the not too distant future - better out before it does.

I do not believe that European countries will not want to trade with the UK, they have too much to lose. What will Germany do with the billions of euro of items they currently export to us for example?

I know Remainers won't accept what I have written above for a variety of reasons. So be it.

FlaviaAnsell Thu 26-Jan-17 16:42:39

Yeah, because life in Britain during the wars was GREAT when imports were restricted. Bring back rationing!

Because of course that's the only alternative to importing food from the EU.

We could produce a lot more of our own food if we wanted to.

We could not waste so much food as we currently do.

We could do the planet some good by not using fuel to import stuff we don't need and which often gets thrown away.

(I was having lunch once at a cafe which served sandwiches, toasties, that kind of thing. Every meal came with a side salad. When I looked around the tables waiting to be cleared, I saw that nearly everyone had left their salad. All those lettuces, tomatoes, etc, had been transported in aeroplanes, lorries, vans, whatever, just to end up in a bin. Waste.)

Costacoffeeplease Thu 26-Jan-17 16:51:57

So the uk are going to produce all their own food - who's going to pick it from the fields?

Kaija Thu 26-Jan-17 17:06:51

I think the plan is for your kids to do it, Costa.

Brexit's going to make us eat up our side salads? This is a new angle. Or is it that we don't need all those fancy European leaves? Let's stick with good old British turnips.

honeysucklejasmine Thu 26-Jan-17 17:09:10

So, when there was rationing during the war, it was because we hadn't bothered farming enough land and were being wasteful? confused seems to be what you imply by suggesting those as solutions. Yes, available workforce was smaller than now, but so was the population.

I wonder if people have considered the lead time of all these amazing new manufacturing industries we are going to have.

Kaija Thu 26-Jan-17 17:11:41

"I wonder if people have considered the lead time of all these amazing new manufacturing industries we are going to have."

Either not, or they think a few years of starvation for some is a price worth paying for "sovereignty".

honeysucklejasmine Thu 26-Jan-17 17:13:10

Best start building some new factories with that £350m a week, huh? Oh. No. Sorry, that was for the NHS, right?

JamieXeed74 Thu 26-Jan-17 17:15:51

Yeah, because life in Britain during the wars was GREAT when imports were restricted

Bloomin heck remoaners are really rolling out project fear to compare Brexit to not one, but two world wars.

Our only choice is to stay in the EU or you will be forced to drink Chinese milk. Oh its torture, luckily the UK has never had a food scandal halo. Whats that you say Dobby the horse, all your friends were eaten, who would do something like that sad?

My milkman says his delivery comes from a local farm, his milk van is electric and its charge wont mange to get to China and back. Guess I will have to made do with English milk.

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