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Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

(994 Posts)
RedToothBrush Tue 17-Jan-17 15:17:16

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

HashiAsLarry Tue 17-Jan-17 15:22:35

Thanks again red

woman12345 Tue 17-Jan-17 15:23:45

flowers thanks RTB
Is this really happening?!!

unicornsIlovethem Tue 17-Jan-17 15:26:33

There are county council elections soon which may deliver a kick - if the tories do abysmally it might mean they reign back a bit from the bluekip approach.

If labour to abysmally they might bum Corbyn and try to work out what the hell it is they stand for again.

RedToothBrush Tue 17-Jan-17 15:29:49

Sorry for Leemings not Lemmings.

woman12345 Tue 17-Jan-17 15:33:52

Brexit as vaccination against EU collapse.
As others watch in amazement and horror, we might be shoring up EU.

^Alain Lamassoure, a French MEP from the centre right Les Republicans party, said Theresa May’s speech was “incomprehensible”. Speaking on FranceInfo radio, he said:

Incomprehensible because the United Kingdom is sinking itself. It’s clear the interest for the British is that their businesses have access to the 500m customers [in Europe] and not just the 65m in Britain. Also she [May] says she is proud that London will be able to take control of trade deals with the rest of the world, but when she comes to negotiating with a country like China she can only offer the 65m British customers.

It’s a kind of economic and business suicide that makes it hard to understand what is going on over the other side of the Channel.

What’s very important is politically the Brexit decision and above all and the shambles and incoherence of the British government since last June has vaccinated many others on the continent against the advantages of leaving the European Union.

We can see from opinion polls and elections among the 27 (remaining member states) the European people feel much more united that Brexit suggested. It hasn’t given anyone an appetite [to leave]^.

squoosh Tue 17-Jan-17 15:34:15

.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs Tue 17-Jan-17 15:35:18

Thanks again Red.

I can't see any way out of this.
Except jumping the boat and going to the other side of the channel.
And praying it's not as bad as I fear. Not as bad as history has proven it can be.

woman12345 Tue 17-Jan-17 15:35:49

Don't think May can spell parliamentary democracy. Our very own Immelda Marcos, complete with shoe collection.

Peregrina Tue 17-Jan-17 15:36:44

Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

I am retired with a pension, and no, I don't think it's fine. There are lots like us - we have children and grandchildren and know that their futures are at stake. I am absolutely appalled at Theresa May. She's even worse than Thatcher in my book, and that's saying something.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles.
So far they seem more interested in keeping their jobs - with only the ex-MP for Sleaford having the decency to stand down.

TheMartiansAreInvadingUs Tue 17-Jan-17 15:37:37

woman it will also make the discussions much harder that TM thought. I think she was very much hoping that the next elections this spring would bring people at the head of Germany and France that would be more sympathetic to the uk POV.

Unfortunately, it seems that her antics are having the opposite effect.

SapphireStrange Tue 17-Jan-17 15:44:35

Marking place on this very difficult day.

Thanks Red. (especially for giving me a calming mental image of the ever-cool and collected Jan Leeming grin)

I think we should stay angry.

user1484653592 Tue 17-Jan-17 15:45:51

From her speech
"We will continue to be reliable partners, willing allies and close friends."

reliable partners, willing allies and friends do not steal the pension and livelihood of millions of 'friends'. In Relationship board terms, she is obviously gas lighting us /the 'friends' and being abusive. Definitely 'but we took you to stately homes' type of person.

EmilyAlice Tue 17-Jan-17 15:47:57

I agree Peregrina not fine at all. And 36% of us over 65 voted Remain so it was hardly a landslide. I am worried for us as pensioners in the EU, very concerned for my son in Spain and beyond furious for my grandchildren in the UK who will not have freedom of movement and for my grandchildren in Spain who will have no right to go to the UK. Your threads are wonderful Red but please please don't think all older people think the same.

RedToothBrush Tue 17-Jan-17 15:49:03

Michel Barnier ‏*@MichelBarnier*
Agreement on orderly exit is prerequisite for future partnership. My priority is to get the right deal for EU27. #Brexit

Government wants talks on future relationship in parallel with exit. Barnier says its a prerequisite.

Therefore we can do no talking about future relationship.

Therefore no deal.

No one is going to shift from this. Chaotic Brexit on the cards.

Law and policy ‏**@Law**_and_policy
In a mark of progress on Brexit, May used "clear" 14 times in the speech, and all but one used without an adverb ("absolutely clear", etc).

I am growing to bloody HATE that word.

Law and policy ‏**@Law**_and_policy
UK to reassert parliamentary sovereignty by not giving parliament a vote on A50 and a "take it or leave it" vote at the end.

mel spence @melspence2
No white paper and the "plan" laid out in a speech in Lancaster house, not from the Despatch Box in the House of Commons

squoosh Tue 17-Jan-17 15:50:38

German MEP Jan Phillipp Albrecht

'#May: Go fuck yourself EU but please don't let us down. whine whine'

He has a point...

squoosh Tue 17-Jan-17 15:54:17

From the Guardian

'Alain Lamassoure, a French MEP from the centre right Les Republicans party, said Theresa May’s speech was “incomprehensible”. Speaking on FranceInfo radio, he said:

Incomprehensible because the United Kingdom is sinking itself. It’s clear the interest for the British is that their businesses have access to the 500m customers [in Europe] and not just the 65m in Britain. Also she [May] says she is proud that London will be able to take control of trade deals with the rest of the world, but when she comes to negotiating with a country like China she can only offer the 65m British customers.

It’s a kind of economic and business suicide that makes it hard to understand what is going on over the other side of the Channel.

What’s very important is politically the Brexit decision and above all and the shambles and incoherence of the British government since last June has vaccinated many others on the continent against the advantages of leaving the European Union.

We can see from opinion polls and elections among the 27 (remaining member states) the European people feel much more united that Brexit suggested. It hasn’t given anyone an appetite [to leave].'

SemiPermanent Tue 17-Jan-17 15:59:44

.

squoosh Tue 17-Jan-17 16:05:33

And this from John Harris certainly rings true 'This was effectively May’s last big moment of political control before article 50 is triggered, negotiations begin, and all that stuff about the best deal in the best of all possible worlds collides with what the EU wants. When that story takes flight, today – and its temporary political dividends – will feel like something from another age.'

RedToothBrush Tue 17-Jan-17 16:12:12

Don't worry, I know. My parents are Remainers and I have friends over 65 who are Remainers.

My point is more that it is much easier to vote to Leave if you don't have to deal with the consequences yourself and then say in a rather patronising tone that you did it for your children and grandchildren. It is a way of abdicating responsibility and reassuring anyone who might have creeping doubts now coming in.

What May says is a way of reinforcing the idea that Baby Boomers who voted to leave are correct to have done that. It stops critical thinking.

It plays to this attitude about the young that they are somehow ungrateful and not hard working like previous generations. 'If only they worked harder they would get everything we had' and the 'we've worked hard, now we've earned it mentality' attitudes that are prevalent in certain groups and propagated by the Mail and the Express.

Its an infantilisation of the children of baby boomers who don't know what's good for them and playing to this arrogance.

THATS my objection. Its how May frames it and how there is a lack of awareness of some of the privileges that came with being born at a certain time and just how that has been taken for granted by an older generation who accuse the young of being soft and pampered. There is no small irony in it.

May's comments are a reinforcement of the divide and despite the talk of unity, how can she expect young people to see it differently?

I'm sorry if that doesn't come across well, but its yet another case of petrol being poured on the fires of resentment to Brexit and another wall going up between generations.

In the short term the economic effects will be felt even more disproportionately by the young, because of the sodding triple lock which insulates pensioners against a Brexit economic downturn. They will be the last to feel the effects and in the meantime are fed more of the 'the young are lazy' shit to keep them on board whilst Brexit goes through.

How can the young fight back? They are outnumbered. If they have young families it very difficult to have the time to do anything or become political representatives. Even if you are seriously considering it as a family then expenses only allow for a 1 bed property in London - the system is weighted against younger people and only for careerists - not real lives.

And May talks about a fair society.

Name ONE THING that is fair about Brexit. ONE THING.

RedToothBrush Tue 17-Jan-17 16:17:59

Lord Lamont: Time for people to back May on Brexit

Former chancellor Lord Lamont praised Theresa May's Brexit speech, saying the prime minister has given "all the detail that could reasonably be expected".

He added that it is time for everyone to "back the prime minister's efforts."

Speaking to the Press Association, Lord Lamont said: "The Prime Minister has given a firm lead and a clear vision. She has given all the detail that could reasonably be expected.

"Carping or calling for yet more detail will merely undermine Britain's negotiating position. It is time for everyone to back the Prime Minister's efforts."

With all due respect Mr Lamont. Fuck off.

Oh and why did May's speech get leaked yesterday? Nothing to do with allowing the pound to tank yesterday so that the media can go "oh its not too bad" as the pound has lost value every time a minister has opened their mouth about Brexit in the last 7 months.

Peregrina Tue 17-Jan-17 16:18:22

May used "clear" 14 times in the speech,

Anyone who has studied Law at all will know not to use the words, "it's clear" or "obviously". The legal profession would have a lot less work to do if people remembered that.

WifeofDarth Tue 17-Jan-17 16:18:57

In shock, feeling sick, marking place.
spent morning at 'life in the uk' test centre today. It was full of eu nationals kicking off their naturalisation process. Wonder how many will actually follow through and stay after this.
After 15 years of life with a french man I now understand the meaning of 'the perfidious albion' .

CrystalMcPistol Tue 17-Jan-17 16:19:55

'Carping or calling for yet more detail will merely undermine Britain's negotiating position. It is time for everyone to back the Prime Minister's efforts.'

Hmmm, lemme think about that one Norm.....

Nah.

woman12345 Tue 17-Jan-17 16:21:17

ex-MP for Sleaford having the decency to stand down
I was hoping for an Anthony Meyer stalking horse candidate. I thought there might be a human being , with morality in the tory party who might have the stones to stand against this mob rule.

*Peregrina^ with you on what you said about 'baby boomers', it always seemed a bit khmer rougey and uncivilised when I noticed people were being encouraged to attack different age groups, over the years. Divide and rule..

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