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Scots and Welsh can have say in Brexit court case

(16 Posts)
LurkingHusband Fri 18-Nov-16 13:07:02

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38027230

The Scottish and Welsh governments are to be allowed to intervene in the Supreme Court battle over how Brexit should be triggered.
The government's appeal against the High Court ruling that MPs must vote on triggering Brexit will be heard in the Supreme Court from 5 December.
It will last four days, with the decision expected in the new year.
Theresa May has said she is "clear" she expects to start talks on leaving the EU as planned by the end of March.
Counsel for the Scottish Government is being invited by the Supreme Court justices to address the court on the relevance of points of Scots law, so far as they do not form part of the law of England and Wales.
Three senior High Court judges ruled that the prime minister does not have power to use the royal prerogative to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty to start the two-year process of negotiating Brexit without the prior authority of Parliament.
Mrs May and her ministers are now asking the Supreme Court to overturn that unanimous decision.
Labour has said it will not attempt to delay or scupper this process if a vote goes ahead but pressure is mounting on the government from the devolved legislatures.
The Independent Workers Union of Great Britain, which describes itself as "fighting for the rights and welfare of some of the most vulnerable and under-represented workers in the UK", has also been given permission to make submissions to the court.
The Attorney General for Northern Ireland has made a reference to the court on devolution issues and did not need permission to intervene.
The historic legal challenge over Brexit was brought by investment fund manager and philanthropist Gina Miller and Deir Dos Santos, a hairdresser, with other "concerned citizens".
After Lord Toulson's retirement this summer, the appeal will be heard by all 11 remaining Supreme Court justices, led by their President Lord Neuberger.
At the completion of legal submissions, the justices will reserve their decision to a date "probably in the new year", a spokesman for the court said.

Peregrina Fri 18-Nov-16 14:45:32

I am not sure what the Welsh Government hope to get out of this. It was almost inevitable that the Scots would want their say, having both voted Remain and having a different legal system.

LurkingHusband Fri 18-Nov-16 15:08:05

I am not sure what the Welsh Government hope to get out of this

They are a devolved administration, and stand to be affected by what Westminster gets up to - irrespective of the Welsh vote in the referendum.

I would expect the Welsh government to be acting in the interests of all it's citizens. Like the Scottish government. Rather a stark contrast the signalled intention of the English government to shaft a great number of its citizens with a cloak and dagger deal.

Peregrina Fri 18-Nov-16 15:24:55

Rather a stark contrast the signalled intention of the English government to shaft a great number of its citizens with a cloak and dagger deal.

Yup, and to keep telling us about 'the people have spoken', i.e. we are shit scared of two things - Tory party split and UKIP.

prettybird Sat 19-Nov-16 11:13:19

"Can have a say" though is slightly misleading/disingenuous. hmm

They're being allowed to make representations to the Supreme Court judges (all of them wink) about the potential impact on Scots Law/their respective jurisdictions - but the only people who will actually have a say (as in, the final word) will be the judges when they pronounce their decision.

GingerIvy Sat 19-Nov-16 11:16:46

It's a bit odd though. They voted to stay in the UK, which means abiding by the results of a UK wide vote in other matters. If they're part of the UK, they don't get to pick and choose whether or not to go along with UK-wide results based on whether or not they like them.

STIDW Sat 19-Nov-16 20:40:12

It's a bit odd though. They voted to stay in the UK, which means abiding by the results of a UK wide vote in other matters. If they're part of the UK, they don't get to pick and choose whether or not to go along with UK-wide results based on whether or not they like them.

Legally it isn't as straight forward. Westminster enacting Brexit legislation would change Scottish powers & under the Sewel Convention Westminster shouldn't legislate for matters devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

Mistigri Sat 19-Nov-16 20:41:10

It's a bit odd though. They voted to stay in the UK, which means abiding by the results of a UK wide vote in other matters. If they're part of the UK, they don't get to pick and choose whether or not to go along with UK-wide results based on whether or not they like them.

It's your comment that is odd. The referendum asked whether the UK should leave the EU, but it did not ask by whom A50 would be triggered, or what brexit would look like. It is perfectly reasonable for devolved governments to want some influence over these issues, because of their impact on the Scottish and Welsh people.

prettybird Sat 19-Nov-16 21:04:16

not even getting into the debate that a large part of the argument for staying in the UK was that that was the only way Scotland could remain part of the EU hmmconfusedangry I know a number of people who voted No for precisely that reason despite me trying to persuade them that the bigger risk was staying in the UK, contrary to what the MSM was saying. All I did succeed in doing was getting a commitment that should it ever happen, they'd vote Yes the next time; a promise they are standing by

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 19-Nov-16 21:07:32

I heard Letwin say on the radio that the government should drop the appeal in case the high court decides devolved administrations should have more power.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 19-Nov-16 21:07:56

Supreme Court, sorry

Tenguitars Sat 19-Nov-16 21:52:02

At least NS has shut up about a second referendum for the now

HirplesWithHaggis Sat 19-Nov-16 22:18:06

thenational.scot/news/14915561.Brexit_plans_in_the_balance__Lord_Advocate_wins_right_to_argue_that_Holyrood_must_have_a_vote_on_Article_50/

"In another development, the Lord Advocate will argue that triggering Article 50 in the way that Prime Minister May wants would be a breach of the 1707 Act of Union itself.

Article XVIII of the Treaty of Union states that "no alteration be made in laws which concern private right, except for the evident utility of the subjects within Scotland."

It is likely that the exact nature of "private right" and "evident utility" will be considered... "

We may not need indyref2 at this rate.

Peregrina Sat 19-Nov-16 23:40:36

I am not going to shed any tears for Theresa May and her Government. Wiser heads than they appear to have, would have said, yes, the country has expressed a preference to leave the EU, but in order to make a success of it, we must do it properly and consider the known issues. Forget this silly nonsense of pandering to UKIP or rushing Art 50 through. If it took 3 years to do the spadework before we were ready for that, then so be it. If something is worth doing, it should be worth doing well.

Let's forget for now the 'unknown unknowns', which no one can do much about except meet when the time comes.

HyacinthFuckit Wed 23-Nov-16 20:24:03

It's a bit odd though. They voted to stay in the UK, which means abiding by the results of a UK wide vote in other matters.

It isn't odd in the slightest. They voted to stay in the UK, at a time when the UK was in the EU. The preferred constitutional arrangement of the Scottish people, and indeed those of NI, is to remain in the UK and the EU, and the last time either had any opportunity to express this we had not voted to leave the EU. Now that has been rendered impossible, naturally everything changes.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 23-Nov-16 20:32:41

Hyacinth

Not forgetting that as well as that Better Together were telling folk that an Indy Scotland would be out of the EU forever, and that the only way to guarantee EU membership was to vote Remain. People who suggested that Scotland would actually be dragged out of the EU by rUK were disregarded.

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