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What would you change/keep and why?

(35 Posts)
Chala86 Sat 15-Oct-16 19:16:57

I've been umming and ahhing about starting this thread for awhile. Hopefully it won't descend into bickering. I don't want to know how you voted. I don't want to know why you voted.
I want to ask how would you like to UK and it's relationship with Europe and the rest of the world to change? What would you keep? And why?
No judgement.

Bearbehind Sat 15-Oct-16 20:48:06

You won't get many replies OP.

Remainers would have preffered to change from within and Leavers won't tell you what they want.

StripeyMonkey1 Sat 15-Oct-16 21:11:07

Only benefit to leaving I can see is that the rules preventing state aid (designed to prevent one country from helping its domestic corporates at the expense of those in other EU countries - and therefore necessary for the single market) will no longer apply. Not everyone will favour this (for example I think the country as a whole was against subsiding the coal industry in the 1980s) but it will give us the option back, should we choose to use it.

If we wish to trade with Europe, even if not as part of the single market, I think we will still want to comply with their regulations and safety standards to allow us to export our goods.

We could do away with areas of legislation which are not as far-reaching in the US for example, such as anti money laundering legislation but I'm not sure that would be positive.

I don't think there is much appetite generally to do away with employment protection/health and safety legislation and I wouldn't be in favour personally but there is an argument that cutting this red tape would help small businesses in particular and boost the economy.

I'm a Remain voter btw. I will be interested to see whether Leave voters can offer any further ideas.

Chala86 Sat 15-Oct-16 21:16:33

Maybe I didn't word the op as well as I could have. I'm asking what you would want hypothetically. It could be simply that you would keep everything the same. It could be to just tweak the edges. So not a realistic outlook, just your personal ideals.

StripeyMonkey1 Sat 15-Oct-16 21:17:03

Data protection might be an area the government wishes to alter. I'm against the Snooper's Charter etc so I think this would be negative, but Theresa May might well feel the new ability of the secret services to read our emails (and the removal of our rights to encrypt securely) for example is a worthwhile cause.

Of course, what the government can read, can then also be hacked by the Russians, but there's no real risk of that, is there? hmm

Chala86 Sat 15-Oct-16 21:21:10

I guess I wasn't expecting lots of replies. It's a touchy subject. I'd hoped to come up with a way of talking about it without so much confrontation.

StripeyMonkey1 Sat 15-Oct-16 21:24:31

To take reality out of it my personal hypothetical ideals would be more international
- basic human rights for everyone in all countries
- enforceable international standards on the environment and climate change
- basic provision for food and emergency (acute) medical care for all so no-one anywhere has to starve

What would yours be?

smallfox2002 Sat 15-Oct-16 21:31:34

I do wonder about the state aid point, I thought that levels of subsidies had to be agreed as part of a WTO deal too.

StripeyMonkey1 Sat 15-Oct-16 21:36:48

You may well be right smallfox2002, and I can't imagine many of our new trading partners (China? the USA?) will be very welcoming of British state aid to our manufacturers in any sectors which threaten them. Maybe we could use state aid to help our corporates compete against small third world countries - or maybe not - horrible thought.

StripeyMonkey1 Sat 15-Oct-16 22:32:39

If I'm being generous to Leavers, some of whom might post on the thread, I'd say they would want social benefits.

I think there is a strong Leave affection for community and the recent global trend for a transient community which doesn't allow the establishment of real and lasting social connection is seen as a problem. Immigration is probably the most visible sign of this transience and disconnection, but the need to move away from rural to urban areas for work and the losing of talented young people will also play a part. I suspect that many Leave voters, in an ideal world, would want a stronger, more bonded, community.

Of course, as a Remainer, I don't think we'll get this as a result of leaving the EU. I actually think the opposite is more likely as we move to become an ultra free trade nation, or as a result of a backlash against it, return to the equally divisive 1970s high tax, brain drain era.

Can anyone think of anything else?

Peregrina Sat 15-Oct-16 23:06:14

If we start training more doctors, (and nurses and midwives) I would like to see us training sufficient numbers so that we can have enough to export them to other countries; thus giving something back to the countries of the Commonwealth. Ideally, I would like to see exchanges of medical personnel, so that we could learn from each other.

But since Hunt and Rudd tied this to their anti-foreigner rhetoric at the Tory party conference, I think this is wishful thinking on my behalf.

StripeyMonkey1 Sat 15-Oct-16 23:37:41

That's a good one Peregrina. I'd also like to see elite engineering technical schools of the type that exist in Germany and France to produce more really top level engineers in the country with a view to designing and making more high tech products here. The knock on, in my ideal world, would be more manufacturing jobs for all (elite is not a dirty word - the more excellence we have in the UK the better).

Of course, any graduates would also need to have the ability to work here post graduation or they would just move abroad on qualification, so maybe it could be combined with some science/technology sector funding?

noeuf Sat 15-Oct-16 23:43:07

Id like to see an immigration policy applied to all countries and not just favouring Europeans. I would like it based on skills we need and for it to be realistic. For example, easy to apply for entry for seasonal workers.

I'd like to see British benefits claimants encouraged to do some of the jobs immigrants currently fill as people get older, move area etc and for wages to allow this (that's not really an EU thing I guess)

Figmentofmyimagination Sun 16-Oct-16 00:12:13

Noeuf you realise don't you that most benefit claimants (British or otherwise) are already in work? The problem is that their wages are too low to live on or cover housing costs.

prettybird Sun 16-Oct-16 00:32:17

I'd like to see a less austerity driven approach - a more Keynesian approach with capital infrastructure projects to provide stimulus during the "bad" years (with a sovereign wealth fund built up during the "good" years rather than tax cuts for the rich)

I'd like to see a more welcoming approach to immigrants - especially students. My country has a practically static - but aging - population so needs young healthy immigrants.

I'd like to see workers' rights protected - as well as human rights.

I'd like to see Climate Change and environmental targets worked towards wholeheartedly in the West - while recognising that the developing countries do need more time to achieve the same goals. After all, we're only talking about replacing ourfridges and factories we've already got our mod cons/built our economies - they still need to get a fridge in the first place. hmm

I'd like to see the power of big corporations curtailed: they shouldn't be able to sue governments if their democratically elected governments affect their profits, particularly vis-à-vis the public sector.

This is what I'd like. The likelihood of it happening though, under May or even whoever replaces her, however......hmm

ReallyTired Sun 16-Oct-16 00:45:25

I want a shake up of our immigration system. At the moment we are far too harsh to non EU migrants/ visitors. Mary brown has been condemned to death because her sister Martha has been denied a visa.

Yet we allow any EU citzen to rock up to the uk and claim benefit.

I want us to have agreements for freedom of movement between certain countries like Ireland. I hope that the uk can have a free trade deal with Ireland to preserve the good Friday agreement even if the rest of the eu does not want a trade deal with us.

I feel that freedom of movement within the single market needs to be reformed to stop any country from being completely flooded with foreigners. Swiss citzens want restrictions on freedom of movement. Sadly I don't think the eu are prepared to negiogate on freedom of movement.

I would like the uk to set up agreements with wealthy English speaking countries to make sure that people who marry a British citzens can settle in the U.K. I don't think there is much moviation for someone from Australia or Canada or New Zealand to have a sham marriage. They aren't coming to the uk to escape poverty. I hope such an agreement could be bilateral if the numbers of Brits wanting to marry abroad is balanced by those who come here from other countries.

smallfox2002 Sun 16-Oct-16 00:49:37

"Yet we allow any EU citzen to rock up to the uk and claim benefit"

Less likely to claim benefits than British born.

You realise there are lots of Brits on benefits in other EU countries? Far many more in Germany, France and others than there nationals are here.

Being part of the EU, Ireland wouldn't be able to negotiate its own free trade deal with us.

So if anything your ill informed.

The rest of your post is simply bizarre.

ReallyTired Sun 16-Oct-16 01:26:32

"Being part of the EU, Ireland wouldn't be able to negotiate its own free trade deal with us. "

I hope that something can be negiogate do avoid a return of the troubles. If the EU is so intransitant to want a hard boarder in Ireland then that is all the more reason to leave.

If other EU countries are happy to have migrants turn up without a job and expect benefits that is up to them. Most EU migrants do work, but there are plenty who claim in work benefits like child tax credits or housing benefit.

Ireland will really suffer if no agreement can be reached between the uk and Ireland. It's not just trade, but peace. I hope that the other 25 EU countries do not punish Eire for a decision made by England and Wales.

smallfox2002 Sun 16-Oct-16 01:58:23

It isnt the EU that will insist on a hard border in Ireland, its our government.

If we leave the customs union as looks likely Ireland will have to have a hard border and there will be no free trade agreement.

"Most EU migrants do work, but there are plenty who claim in work benefits like child tax credits or housing benefit."

Yes but EU immigrants are net tax contributors overall.

In fact any cost to the exchequer based argument for brexit is fundamentally flawed because the costs of not being part of the single market in terms of reduced tax take is far, far greater than the cost of paying any benefits to EU immigrants.

smallfox2002 Sun 16-Oct-16 02:04:24

"Ireland will really suffer if no agreement can be reached between the uk and Ireland. It's not just trade, but peace. I hope that the other 25 EU countries do not punish Eire for a decision made by England and Wales."

26 EU countries, and really, blaming the EU for any problems Ireland might have in the future because of brexit negotiations is utterly facetious. The responsibility to ensure Ireland is OK in peace terms lies with the UK, because of course it is Northern Ireland (part of the UK) and not Eire where the problems will occur.

In terms of trade Ireland may do very well out of hard brexit. Low corporation tax with an educated and English speaking population would set it out as a very convenient location for US banks and corporations to have their European headquarters, rather than the UK.

Peregrina Sun 16-Oct-16 07:04:48

Ireland will really suffer if no agreement can be reached between the uk and Ireland. It's not just trade, but peace.

I agree. I am appalled that no one appeared to have thought through the consequences of a No vote to NI when the Referendum legislation was being drawn up. If violence breaks out again I will hold May's Government criminally negligent.

Chala86 Sun 16-Oct-16 09:37:18

Stripey I agree with your ideals internationally. I would add the right to an education to your list. Everyone should get that opportunity to learn and to use their education.
With the EU and Brexit in mind, I would've preferred change from within, and most of the change would need to come from our own government. I would want:

- for our government to take responsibility for their decisions rather than laying the blame elsewhere (immigration and the EU).
- less waste. I can't abide the rules for perfect fruit and the throwaway fish quotas. When so many don't have enough to eat it's depressing to know that so much is simply thrown out.
- more investment into clean energy and research into energy storage. I worry for our environment right now and would hate it if we do away with the laws already in place to protect it.
- to keep anything that protects workers rights. This is another one that concerns me deeply. It would be depressing to step backwards. I would rather these laws were strengthened.
- loopholes that enable companies to legally avoid their tax to be closed.

These are just a few. There are so many things I'd like to change or improve but it's all money. So many places would benefit from investment and improvements to infrastructure. Unfortunately it's down to our own government and not the EU. It's nice to dream though.

noeuf Sun 16-Oct-16 09:44:14

Figment what a knee jerk silly comment.
Of course someone already working shouldn't change jobs.

Chala86 Sun 16-Oct-16 09:47:07

Sadly I don't this Ireland's future was ever a focal point in the referendum. I do hope a compromise can be reached where the peace can be kept.

StripeyMonkey1 Sun 16-Oct-16 12:53:27

Chala86 - I agree with your list. Of course, there is no reason why this could not be achieved without Brexit (and we might well have more money to do some of the things on that list if we were not to Brexit), but that is another point entirely.

With regard to perfect fruit and vegetables, I particularly dislike it when the visual perfection is combined with little or no taste. I understand that the nutritional value of a lot of fruit and veg has declined significantly too, from what it used to be. I wonder in practice however, whether people will want to buy the small apples and the peaches with marks on the skin? I would personally, if they were tastier and juicer but I am not sure that this is what would sell best in the supermarkets. We might well find uniformity of shape and colour in fruit and veg to be a food equivalent of skinny models selling more clothes - people buy what they think looks good.

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