To think the referendum was about leaving and nothing else(51 Posts)
unelected PM is now talking about a hard Brexit and not allowing freedom of movement and her vision.
Because obviously a stay vote only had one outcome, we continue in Europe no conversation needed. But of course Brexit could take many shapes and forms.
AIBU to think Referendum simply asked in / out , and now we're heading for our the public should get a say in it rather than PM May interpreting the out vote anyway she likes ?
YANBU. I could easily see her ending up being more hated than Thatcher.
I don't believe we should get a vote about the details. The general public never got a chance to vote for the changes that occurred in the EU from our joining to now.
Yanbu. If instead of in / out we'd been asked in / out (soft ) / out (hard) I cannot believe out (hard) would have had the majority.
If we get to vote on this we should get to vote on every other policy and decision as well, which is just unrealistic.
Well it's easy to understand why she's talking about a hard Brexit - whether we like or not limiting immigration was a major if not the major factor behind the leave vote, so her "mandate" is to limit immigration somehow. If she chases a soft Brexit there will be no limitation placed on immigration - the EU won't budge so she has to go into negotiations prepared to play hardball by making it clear that she's prepared to leave the single market. It's really the only leverage we have in the negotiations, except for that the EU has us over a barrel. I'm sure that she is hoping for a result that keeps us in the single market but she has to show she's prepared to do a hard Brexit.
I'm pretty angry about how immigration has been handled and I blame her for allowing it to be such an issue. She was Home Secretary for years and she banged on about reducing net migration and yet did nothing. Now she is announcing measures like limiting student visas - which considering that the majority of immigration to the UK is from countries outside the EU and the majority of that is through student visas she could have taken action reasonably on this years ago instead of allowing resentment of EU free movement build up to toxic levels.
As for more people wanting a soft Brexit that just seems so illogical? To want to leave the EU but to stay in the single market, allow freedom of movement and pay a large contribution to the EU with no say in matters any more. Who would think that is a better deal? At this stage it is the remain side that would accept that option but unfortunately they lost the referendum.
I still think that many people voted with immigration at the forefront of their minds and there shouldn't have been a referendum in the first place.
Yes, insofar as the ballot paper only asked to tick a remain or leave box.
So, the government have now proposed a name and shame policy for firms employing some sort of unacceptable number of non British people. Maybe there will be proposed boycott of foreign owned businesses next.
I wouldn't have thought Heseltine, Major and Clark would be standing out as responsible statesmen vis a vis any other Conservative. But they do and the competition seems to be quite bankrupt in comparison.
May doesn't have any substance. She is playing to the UKIP gallery and is extra vociferous because she didn't do a single thing to curb the non EU half of the immigration even though there was no impediment to her doing it.
The banking crowd are full of international milieu. They can go wherever the business can be done. With name and shame be going further, I wonder?
As an aside, I guess Dyson's possibly 100% non British manufacturing workforce doesn't count for the name and shame as he didn't even bother keeping a factory here.
Very strange times, indeed.
As for why people voted the way they did. There would have had to be another box to fill or tick to verify that. Anything else is speculation.
If we get to vote on this we should get to vote on every other policy and decision as well, which is just unrealistic
But we do - its called a general election.
I don't see the point of leaving if isn't a hard Brexit. I think the 52% who vote leave wanted a hard exit.
I personally voted Remain, wish we had a decent opposition to get in power on a Manifesto of Stay.
I have to agree. I don't think many leave voters would have wanted a soft Brexit as that certainly doesn't give the result anyone on the leave side would want. Control on immigration wouldn't happen with a soft Brexit so what would be the point.
I also think the PM has to go for this other wise she has nowhere to go from a negotiating point of view.
YABVU! The referendum was about far more than that.
The question on the ballot paper was only that however, hence the
total fuck up omnishambles we find ourselves in...
But alas, this is why many of us voted Remain. We didn't necessarily know if we wanted to Remain or Leave - but with Leave so ill-defined, Leave did not seem a safe vote.
I think many Leave voters (though not all) are now surprised to have their in / out vote interpreted in such extreme ways.
If the model of Brexit proposed had been clearer, the result would be much more fair.
Her party's election manifesto was to continue in the single market. She has no mandate to pull us out. So YANBU. I also find it astonishing that she's behaving as though she's leading a newly elected party- as opposed to one that's been in power for years and caused most of the problems in the first place (and with her in a senior role within).
It's weird that May was a Remainer and so was Rudd and yet here they are with hard. Brexit and their lists of forriners employed by companies.
I think May sounds terrifying with her Citizens of the World speech.
Nobody but nobody represents the 48%.
Cameron should hang his head in shame. Forever.
winky 100% agree with every word.
As for saying that TM has to control immigration - she failed spectacularly when Home Secretary, with more immigration from non-EU countries, than EU ones, despite the obstacles put in their way.
What alternatives has she? Well, if Cameron hadn't resigned in a panic, there might have been a proper contest for Tory leader, although I agree, the field was thin. Then a new PM, or even Cameron, could have acknowledged there was a narrow victory to leave the EU, and then set up a cross-party commission to examine the issues, and suggest what option would be best for the whole country. Most of the noise being made by the Leave camp is coming from the extremists; most others don't give a damn really, so this would have been worth a gamble.
Instead no, they have gone down the full blown "let's court UKIP route". No doubt some of this is posturing for the Conference, but their ghastly statements can't be unsaid, however many tears they shed about being called racist.
No Mrs May, you are not doing this in my name. Fascism means fascism.
YANBU! I'm really puzzled and saddened by the "package" of issues that have become bundled into the Brexit identity. It seems that to be a true BeLeaver it's no longer enough to support leaving the EU but to cleave to a whole raft of ideas that go far beyond what is needed to deliver Brexit.
Although I fundamentally disagree, I could understand someone saying, "I support Brexit and it is so important because xyz that I accept that this means a poorer economy/ some job losses/ damage to international relations" or "I support Brexit but acknowledge that there have been unfortunate effects which I deplore, like increased racism/ targeting of foreigners/ xenophobia". That would be an honestly held view.
Instead there seems to be a need to see everything as being Great, and if anybody suggests anything is less than ideal they get attacked.
Xenophobic rhetoric, inciting hatred of foreigners and ideological enemies and fascist-inclined policies announced by the government? Nope, absolutely not improper at all, these were all pearls of wisdom coalesced into optimal government policy, and if you disagree you're hysterical and in fact you are worse than Hitler for mentioning it.
Undemocratic power grab by the government against our sovereign parliament? It's a new improved definition of democracy and if you speak out against it then you are condemned as anti-democratic and deserve the wrath of The People.
Increase in racist incidents? They're made up, or over-reported by enemies of the project, or just anecdotes, or all minor events (even the murders and beatings). If people feel worried and vulnerable, it's because Remainers have whipped up their fears without a shred of evidence just to scare monger.
Economy looking wobbly and currency plummeting? Focus only on positive indicators and dismiss anything to the contrary as the fabrications of doom mongers who have committed the crime of Talking Britain Down.
Wondering about whether you should emigrate because you're not keen on any of the above? Congratulations, you're now simultaneously invited to ironically fuck off to a dictatorship because we don't like moaners who are enemies of the state, but also a traitor because you're taking your labour away from your all-loving fellows and forsaking your (genetic) heritage.
I just don't understand why Brexit has to encompass this all-or-nothing nationalistic flag-waving ever-positive fervour in which dissent is so furiously decried. What on earth does any of it have to do with the simple question of whether to Leave the EU?
YABU - the Remain campaign pointed out that leaving could mean a "hard" Brexit. Those who voted Leave were aware of that and decided to vote Leave anyway.
David Cameron tried to get us some controls, he failed. People don't want a wishy washy exit, they want and voted to get out. Remain tried to claim we could remain and somehow curb the never ending influx of people, but it was tosh. Hard brexit will be for the best. The EU is going to crash and burn, let's make our own way from note on.
wendy if the EU crashes do you really think we'll be protected if we are on our own?
Have you seen today's news about the fact the government have now decided it will be illegal to deport 80% of the EU immigrants and the rest will be offered an amnesty.
Cameron did get us concessions he just didn't make a big enough point about it because he thought Remain would win anyway.
None of that really strengthens your stance for why hard Brexit will be best?
The EU is going to crash and burn?
Gosh. All these certain predictions. Wow. Soothsayers galore.
And if it does crash and burn, it won't be good for Britain at all.
People really want it to crash and burn regardless, don't they?
Big cross party revolt over this. Pointing out nobody voted to leave the biggest trading market in the western world.
It ain't over yet.
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