BREXIT and the NHS

[twofingerstoGideon]

Cuts to NHS services currently being planned

I've seen Brexit voters on MN claim that they 'never believed' the 'more funding for the NHS' slogans anyway, even though it was a mainstay of the leave campaign, but wonder how they feel about the news that massive cuts are being planned to the health service.

Here's a reminder of the campaign slogan: We send the EU £350 million a week. Let's fund our NHS instead. Vote leave.

I imagine Brexit will cost us a fortune in terms of legal and admin fees etc. and that's before we get to any other potential impact on the UK economy.

We are a wealthy country, but our government is choosing not to invest in our NHS service, which benefits every single person living in the UK, while forging ahead with an expensive administrative exercise because 'the people have spoken'. I would genuinely like to know what Brexit voters think of this.

[twofingerstoGideon]

'slogan', not 'slogans' in first para.

[Kaija]

Quite apart from the nonsense on the bus, many of the prominent leave campaigners and backers have called publicly for the NHS to be privatised/dismantled. Between this and the post-Brexit economic forecasts, I'm afraid I really can't see much hope for the NHS now.

[twofingerstoGideon]

I was aware that some of the campaigners (IDS, Johnson, Gove) were in favour of privatisation or of insurance schemes, but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that 'saving' the NHS was a motivator for many leave voters.

I wonder how these people feel now?

[Peregrina]

I am cynical, I know. I think the blame will be passed squarely back to the Remain camp. "It's their fault we haven't invoked Art. 50 yet, so it's their fault that no money is available for the NHS". If/when money ever is available, the NHS will have been wrecked anyway.

[twofingerstoGideon]

I believe the money exists now, but the government doesn't want to spend it on the NHS for ideological reasons.
Given that NHS funding was used as a major weapon in Brexit's armoury, I would be astonished if this didn't sway some voters.
I suppose I should be careful of 'talking down' the NHS!

[Peregrina]

I have just blasted off yet another letter to my MP, who was Remain but is now singing the Brexit is Brexit mantra.

I have said the following:

"I read with anger about the cuts the Conservative party plans to make to
the NHS. Since you are the Ministerial Lead for Public Health England this falls squarely within your remit.

"I believe that many voted to leave the EU on the basis of a promise of
£350 million a week for the NHS, although I am fully aware that the
mendacious leaders of the Leave camp all tried to renege upon this
promise within hours.

"Theresa May has been reciting that Brexit means Brexit. Therefore, I
consider that this is the one promise that is indivisible from the
Brexit vote."

[twofingerstoGideon]

Good letter, Peregrina. I'll also be writing to my MP. He is a Tory remainer.

[SwedishEdith]

Apparently, I've got a reply now from my MP (am away atm so not read it) but, like Peregrina, I'm going to keep writing.

They can (and will) slash the NHS because they now have clear evidence that people do not vote in their best interests. What's to stop them? There's no effective opposition.

[Peregrina]

Indeed, there is no effective opposition, so we need to make it clear to Tory MPs that their seats could be vulnerable, as in my MPs case, if they ignore the wishes of their constituents.

It's been like pulling hen's teeth to get Leavers to say what they were voting for, but I would say that the NHS issue is that one thing.

[STIDW]

People who voted Leave because there would be more money for the NHS will be disappointed. Our rebate was deducted from the gross figure of £350m/week before any money was sent to the EU & then we received back funding mainly for farming & developing poorer areas. On top of that the EU funded directly grants for research & science, paid some of our commitment to foreign aid, services such as negotiation, translation & interpreting were pooled & the EU paid the pensions of UK staff working for the EU.

Unless there are cuts elsewhere there isn't going to be that much,if any, of the £350mn left to spend. Gov needs to find £bns to fund 2 new depts to oversee Brexit, negotiators etc & pensions.

Meanwhile the UK is obliged to pay contribution to the EU until end 2019, many EU professionals working in the NHS are planning to return to the EU because their future here is uncertain. Training & recruitment along with increased prices for imported medicines & medical equipment if the £ remains weak means the cost of the NHS will rise. Additional money will be required just to maintain the exiting level of service in the NHS.

[Peregrina]

STIDW - I fully agree, but the side of the bus didn't have an asterisk pointing to any small print. The Leave campaign knew that the £350 million was a blatant lie, hence my calling them mendacious, but I think sufficient people believed it. People interviewed on the TV said, "I'm voting for the NHS".

[Muddle2000]

All the people I know who voted Leave still believe the £350 million pledge
for the NHS.

[MrsMargeSimpson]

This has been planned long before Brexit. Long, long before.

[Peregrina]

It may have been planned long long before, and of course, they hoped that Remain would win. So the Leave side could happily have said that they wanted to give money to the NHS but now, sob, sob, they couldn't. But since such a big issue was made about "Let's give money to the NHS" then that is now what they should be held to.

We can't afford it you say? When the Americans want us to support them in a war, the money is found immediately, so they can find money for this.

[time4chocolate]

I wasn't going to post anymore but this particular thread has made me really cross.

The NHS as a free public service has been one of this countries greatest achievements and one that a lot of other countries would dearly love to have. It is one that has benefited every single person in this country either directly or indirectly. Unfortunately, it is clear for all to see that it has been struggling and mismanaged for at least the last 10 years and needs a shake-up from the top.

Can you imagine if we no longer had access to this service for our children and grandchildren.

There has been a lot of scoffing on here about the so called 350million going into the NHS but, just maybe people (naively) wanted to believe this to be true and this took priority over other issues stated by both campaigns because if it didn't exist the only other alternative is private medical insurance which would be out of reach for a large proportion of this country.

Don't blame the people for thinking their vote might save it, blame the person that put it on the side of a van. I feel very angry that people are going to be disappointed but I can understand why they did it.

The NHS is almost past repair and I think we will all end up paying into some sort of healthcare plan (maybe part funded) and similar to a dental plan but it won't be accessible/affordable to everyone.

[StripeyMonkey1]

The Leave vote will mean less money for the NHS over time, as tax revenue will be lower when we actually Brexit.

Leavers are apparently prepared to accept lower tax revenues from The Elite.

Leavers therefore (unless they are a little dim) must have expected NHS cuts, alongside cuts in other government funded services.

Ok, so it's a little argumentative, but it's a valid point. Why are Leave voters not shouting they want to remain "In" if they are so worried about the NHS funding?

[Peregrina]

blame the person that put it on the side of a van.
Absolutely. That's you Gisela Stuart, Gove and Johnson.

[Peregrina]

But since those three did put that slogan on the side of the bus, it has been dragged into Brexit. So if 'Brexit means Brexit, and I intend to make a success of it' said by one TM, then she has to find more money for it.

[LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt]

My safe-seat-Tory MP is currently crying crocodile tears over the proposed closure of consultant-led maternity, SCBU, Pediatrics, A&E and other acute services at our local hospital (we will now need to travel for 45-60 minutes - on a good day, and if an ambulance happens to be available - to the next hospital). She's appalled and astonished at the situation, apparently. I'll be writing yet another letter to her, but she seems entirely oblivious to her own hypocrisy and will never do anything other than toe the party line.

[Tryingtosaveup]

I voted leave. It had nothing to do with the bus, the slogan or the NHS.
I voted leave to stop immigration mainly, but also because of the sovereignty issue.
The NHS has nothing to do with Brexit.
What does it matter if it's privatised as long as it remains free at the point of use.
I think a lot of NHS workers are against privatisation because of their final salary pensions and their pay automatic rise up pay scales

[Peregrina]

The NHS has nothing to do with Brexit.
Would you like to write to Stuart, Gove and Johnson and ask them why they put a slogan about it on their bus then?

I agree, it shouldn't be about Brexit, but they made it so, knowingly lying about the sum of money involved.

[Tryingtosaveup]

I am prepared to pay to use the NHS as long as we leave the EU and stop migration from there.

[ssd]

where's claig then, maybe they cant actually defend this then?

[Tryingtosaveup]

No, I don't want to write to them any more than remainers will write to George Osborne about his ridiculous claims about every family being 3K+ worse off.
I don't care what anyone put on the bus. There is no extra EU money for the NHS because we are still in the EU.
You may not have noticed but we haven't left yet and we are still paying them.

[time4chocolate]

Stripey - the Leave camp are not shouting "in" because the remain camp didn't offer up anything positive to grab on to with regard to the NHS (at least not that I can recall but I may be wrong)

Yes, I was and am expecting more cuts, we have had services cut across the board since 2007 due to the previous governments cavalier attitude to the Country's finances which unsurpisingly has got the NHS into the mess it is now. I really don't know what the answer is on how to save it, if it's going to go it's going to go whether we remain or we brexit - its gone past that I fear.