Not my circus, not my monkeys is not good enough- a thread for those who actually want answers

[Bearbehind]

I was going to give this up as a bad job but given the post on the last Leave thread that's nearly full saying that 'any woman with half a brain voted to leave' I felt the discussion needs to go on.

[SapphireStrange]

With you, Bear!

[time4chocolate]

Well I see nothing's changed since I took my mumsnet sabbatical - I don't really understand what you want us to say. Well I do, you want us to acknowledge that we have all made a terrible mistake by not ticking the correct box and that we should all have another referendum to correct that now that we have supposedly been told/shown the error of our ways. That stinks of something very unsavoury. I just thank goodness real life is not like that. I can't add anything else but to say it's very sad that people can't show a bit more respect and less of the calling out and the your wrong and we are right attitude (under the guise of 'debate). There is no answer that anyone can give that hasn't already been said across the numerous threads already and which clearly people find completely unacceptable so this one will go the same way as all the others. I am extending my sabbatical and going back to real life now as its a lot nicer than here and that's saying something.

[Corcory]

Agree time4

[TheElementsSong]

that we should all have another referendum

I'm sure you'll be able to show me the part of the OP's post that says this.

[smallfox2002]

No I think what people want is to be told what leavers actually want.

People find the answers unacceptable because they are just slogans and platitudes that mean nothing. Real reasons, with ideas of what comes next are needed, if you had no idea what comes next but voted out for change sake your vote can be questioned.

Oh and critique and debate are fine in a democracy.

[Peregrina]

Agreed smallfox - I want to see better answers, than a paraphrase of 'all politicians are liars, therefore I will trust them to do er whatever'.

I'd like to see, [this] issue matters to me; I will be writing to my MP about it. For example, we have too many immigrants but they are currently needed to prop up the NHS - if you feel this way, write to your MP to ask why more staff aren't being trained, ask you MP to speak out about cancelling the bursaries for nursing students.

It is a democracy, we are allowed to speak.

[TheForeignOffice]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2706311-LEAVERS-update-on-the-invoke-A50-now-petition-I-have-the-reply?pg=1

Link to the aforementioned thread.

[Lweji]

'any woman with half a brain voted to leave'

I believe I agreed with that on yet another thread and I still can't see why anyone would be proud to claim they only have half a brain.
Because of course anyone with full brain capacity either voted remain or at least has a good idea of how they want leave to happen and what the precise benefits are (I'm still to see those properly explained, though).

[SapphireStrange]

I also want to hear what leavers actually want and how they think these things will wor.

All Leave voters can say, IME, is STILL things like 'we'll have more control' and 'we can trade with whoever we like', and other statements that don't stand up to a moment's unpacking or questioning.

[SapphireStrange]

work

Sorry!

[Bearbehind]

Totally agree with smakkfox and peregrina.

I'm hoping to see a consensus emerging about what Leavers actually want.

I know I'm pissing in the wind if prior threads are anything to go by but maybe, when they actually start thinking about how complex Brexit will be, there might be patterns in what is and isn't going to be possible.

[Bearbehind]

^^ smallfox

[Mistigri]

The only brexiters I have met who both know what they want and can envisage, at least in broad-brush terms, how it might realistically be achieved are those who never wanted a hard brexit and for whom EEA membership would be a satisfactory compromise.

I see no evidence that this group includes anyone in a position of authority, though.

[Peregrina]

Ooh, managed to have the last word on the other thread!

[Bearbehind]

Lol peregrina

I just find it so frustrating that surfer came back to reply that she wouldn't come on this thread but still didn't answer the question above which was what the fuck voting for the greater good actually meant.

It was a good way to end the thread as it totally proved the point about Leave only answering in sound bites and slogans.

To be fair to surfer and corcocry, at least they're still around.

No other leave voters are even attempting to give us an insight into what they think the future holds.

I suspect this will be a very quiet thread

[Peregrina]

Corcory at least says that she doesn't want to see non-whites discriminated in immigration policies, but I am not sure what her whole attitude to immigration was.

[Lweji]

It was a good way to end the thread as it totally proved the point about Leave only answering in sound bites and slogans.

Yes.


Corcory wants the same opportunities for all migrants. Not sure what that means.
On the whole, white people from developed countries still tend to have easier access to the best education and will always be at an advantage over less developed countries and ethnic minorities from those developed countries.
It's still white selection, for the most part.

[RedToothBrush]

I'm hoping to see a consensus emerging about what Leavers actually want.

There are two Leave consensuses already.

The hard right who want hard Brexit
and
Everyone else who doesn't give a fuck about actual policy, as that's what politicians do not me.

FUKD.

[Bearbehind]

Foolishly I was hoping for a bit more than that red

[RedToothBrush]

You won't get one, and you know that if you are honest.

I think you are better to ask about solutions to particular problems tbh.
Otherwise you are in danger of looking like you are picking on particular posters.

[IAmNotTheMessiah]

I have to agree with Smallfox. I stated at the time that I thought they were stooges, and their only response was to suggest that I was a stooge!

Unfortunately, I have to agree on Mumsnet too. They appeared to be blatantly biased in the run up, but when questioned they simply ignored it.

[smallfox2002]

They certainly were. One poster seemed to be able to manage being deleted a lot over time but managed to stay whilst others that rose to the bait vanished.

Mn did turn it's twitter pic to a British flag after the result. I assume those in Highgate won't be effected much.

[Mistigri]

The ones who must not be named on mn orders all vanished after the vote, I think they were paid stooges, but they certainly won't come back and defend here.

Are we no longer allowed to discuss astroturfing on MN? Because I reckon that something in excess of 50% of the brexit posts here were by a handful of prolific astroturfers associated with one particular senior leave campaigner. I'm not saying that all those posting in favour of leave were astroturfing of course, but there were a small number of extremely prolific and well-briefed posters who were being paid to post. It's easy enough to work out who they were.

If MN wants to censor discussion on this issue then they can go ahead and ban me.

[Peregrina]

DH has finally admitted that he's more Eurosceptic than I am, having spent too long listening to Gisela Stuart although he did vote Remain. He said he was worried about increasingly Far right governments getting in, as in Austria, and Hungary.

OK, I said, but what did you vote For? Answer - we can't predict the future, so we don't know what will happen. I almost gave up - we do get on, and he is not racist. I reminded him about the equality legislation of which I had been a beneficiary and various Health and Safety Acts, which may have been at the impetus of the EU, but could easily have stopped someone else's husband or son being killed. He had to admit that the Tories record on worker protection was not good.