Brexit- still gutted by result

[TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince]

Now on holiday in France. Handing over our EU passports was bad😰

Driving through France. Lots of the French Tricolour flag being flown alongside EU flag. That made me feel gutted too.

I just don't seem to be able to rally about it😟. I feel very keenly that we have lost that sense of unity and support.

Snivelling in a French gite atm☹️

[WhatTheActualFugg]

I think you need to give yourself a slap OP and enjoy your holiday.

[Namehanger]

Feel your pain, still gutted.

I could handle losing but the winning campaign was a travesty of small minded populist campaigning. 'Taking back control' was the answer to every question. How can one compete with that emotional gut feeling.

[Corcory]

I really can't understand this great affinity to a flag that's only been around a few years.
If your interested in keeping flags I suggest we all pull together and stop Scotland from leaving the union as that would destroy the Union Jack and that, I think is worth keeping.

[scaryteacher]

What unity and support? The UK will carry on supporting France with sharing intelligence, perhaps contributing troops in Mali etc, as France is an ally, but you are a bit naive to think that this all came about because of the EU.

[TheElementsSong]

we all pull together and stop Scotland from leaving the union

You mean, the Scots might decide to democratically vote for independence from the union despite the likely economic and social disadvantages and Take Back Control from Westminster?

[Corcory]

Elements - We Scots voted to say in the union and that should be the end of it. NS's arguments are much weaker now.

[Corcory]

stay not say!

[Lottapianos]

I'm with you OP. Still absolutely horrified by the result. The Leave campaign was a pack of lies from start to finish, run by people with near sociopathic levels of self interest. Not one of them had a single plan for what would happen if their rotten campaign actually won.

And no one has a clue what happens next. What a time to be alive

[SalemsLott]

Me too op, the whole thing has been a major fuck up. No one has a clue how things will pan out and at what cost.

[IPityThePontipines]

You can be sad all you want.

There seems to be an argument that it's all over and done with now, when the impact of what has been voted for has not even begun yet.

Unity and support also means far more then just military.

[CuboidalSlipshoddy]

The Leave campaign was a pack of lies from start to finish, run by people with near sociopathic levels of self interest. Not one of them had a single plan for what would happen if their rotten campaign actually won.

Speaking as an active, knocking on doors Remain campaigner, it would have been nice had there been any sort of competent remain campaign. I'd worry about their motives afterwards. Remain made the Yes2AV campaign look competent.

[Lottapianos]

Cuboidal, I agree. The Remain campaign was pretty weak stuff. They seemed to rely on terrifying people into submission instead of trying to show people the positive stuff about being in the EU

[TheElementsSong]

We Scots voted to say in the union and that should be the end of it

I don't have an opinion on Scottish independence either way, just interested in the parallels between these situations. The IndyRef should be the "end of it" if the results of referenda are in perpetua, regardless of any subsequent changes in circumstances. But if that were so, the same could have been argued for the 1975 European referendum - why was that result not "the end of it"?

[CuboidalSlipshoddy]

They seemed to rely on terrifying people into submission

It was fucking insane. It was as though they had gone to the warehouse and found a load of yellowing "why we must join the Euro immediately as otherwise our economy will collapse" propaganda and made minimal edits. Nothing, nothing, that was said in support of joining the Euro turned out to be true. So using the same arguments for the EU debate (even if, as it happens, they stand a greater chance of being true) was dumb politics.

In my ex-car-making constituency, the Labour "remain" pamphlet said leaving the EU would harm the finance, high-tech manufacturing and car-making sectors. So that's three things the area doesn't care about, and in the case of harming the finance sector, a lot of people people might emotionally say "good".

And then we paraded the economists and "experts" who completely failed to predict 2007 and said "listen to their economic predictions".

And as you say, no positive case at all. None. Just fear projected on bogus assumptions by discredited people. And then Eddie "when I support something, it's fucked" Izzard joined in, on the grounds that's the nothing that middle England voters aged 65+ like more than a transvestite bloke shouting a lot.

[Viviennemary]

Whatever the result there was bound to be a lot of people left devastated by the result. I wanted to leave and would have been upset with a remain vote. I don't want our laws coming from the EU. I want our own Parliament to make the rules. As for Scotland they had their chance to vote for independence and they voted stay.

Every election campaign exagerates and tells lies. Such is life. It didn't put me off voting leave.

[ajandjjmum]

We don't know what would have happened had we voted stay, but I think those who believe it would have been plain sailing are a little dilusional. We were into unknown territory either way.

[prettybird]

There are quite a few people in Scotland that I know of who voted No because they wanted to stay in the EU despite me arguing that the bigger risk was staying in the UK

A week ago I came across a "Timehop" Facebook post from 2 years ago warning just that - so it's not me justifying my vote after the event.

That friend (and her family) has confirmed that she will be campaigning for Yes now - following up on the promise she made me back in 2014, when she'd said she (and her family) would vote No because she/they believed in the EU.

[Bearbehind]

There seems to be an argument that it's all over and done with now, when the impact of what has been voted for has not even begun yet

I completely agree ipity, I just mentioned on another thread that
yesterday there was a thread about a house sale falling through as the buyers said they didn't want to go ahead as they were concerned about Brexit- one reply said 'it can't be because of Brexit, the referendum was a month ago'

Scary doesn't behind to cover it,

[jm90914]

I've asked several people who complained about "faceless EU bureaucrats" to name their local MP. Surprise, surprise, none of them could.

These people were making the "taking back control", and "making our own laws" arguments to me. Yet they had absolutely no idea who they've given that power to.

The local bureaucrats are just as faceless if you have not one iota of an inclination to find out who the hell they are.

I have no problem with the argument that people want British politicians to make British laws. But that's a soundbite; taken on its on its a complete platitude.

It's not a reason (on its own) to cast a vote, and it doesn't become a good reason to cast a vote until it is accompanied by evidence. Evidence that the current law making system has been detrimental to your lifestyle, and evidence that the new lawmaking system will turn that around.

Sorry, but the standard complaints about bananas don't cut it.

This whole debate has been so shallow, and over-simplified. We don't seem to be capable o critical thinking in this country at anything like the required level to be called upon to make such a decision (and I mean both sides of the argument here, this is not a criticism of any one side). I'm not calling people ignorant or unintelligent here; critical thinking is a skill that can be taught and our education system is not doing it (critical thinkers make dangerous voters).

Having said that, emoji, it's happened. It's time to accept it and move on, because nothing good can come of staying in a regretful state about what has happened. The majority of people who voted wanted to leave, and that is what they should have (even if the consequences are bad for most of them). Personally, I hope that I'm wrong and things will turn out for the best.

[Bearbehind]

^^ Begin not behind

[Corcory]

The Element - The Scottish referendum was supposed to be a 'once in a generation' vote. Having an EU referendum in 1975 and then another one in 2016, 41 years later is a once in a generation thing in my mind. I don't mind Scotland having another referendum in 40+ years time not 2 or 3 years.

[Marmitelover55]

Just got back from a trip to Greece. The EU flag/passport thing made me feel sad too. Several Greek people wanted to ask us why we were leaving. All I could answer was that I voted to remain and am very sorry to be leaving. They obviously thought that we as a nation have taken leave of our senses

[ButteredToastAndStrawberryJam]

Just got back from a trip to Greece. The EU flag/passport thing made me feel sad too. Several Greek people wanted to ask us why we were leaving. All I could answer was that I voted to remain and am very sorry to be leaving. They obviously thought that we as a nation have taken leave of our senses sad The majority of Greeks wanted out too, they had a referendum, the powers that be ignored that though.

[prettybird]

That's interesting ButteredToast. When was it that Greece had a referendum on whether they wanted to stay in the EU or not?

[IPityThePontipines]

No, the majority of Greeks did not vote to leave the EU, they voted to reject an EU debt plan.

Or are we still being "post-facts"?