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Does Jeremy need to write an AIBU?

(69 Posts)
RebeccaNoodles Thu 21-Jul-16 04:27:57

This is not a leading question, I genuinely don't know and my brain is fried as the time of this post will indicate.

I feel like Jeremy's AIBU would be 'I was elected by 251,417 people in 2015 and that's my Mandate and I will represent them forever. I know there were 9 million plus people who voted for Some Kind of Functioning Labour Party but that's democracy for you. And, drip feed, some 16 million people voted for something else again, separate issue, don't want to get into it [please please let's not - ed] but I was only ever 7 out of 10 on that. AIBU?'

But honestly, I'm so confused now, maybe that's unfair? Is he really our best hope?

I feel like the left, whatever that even means now, has been so traumatised post Iraq, and by the shoddiness as well as the success of the Blair era, that we really, really need to feel that someone still has integrity. And he does. Doesn't he? Maybe he's just ineffectual. Or is he? There is a definite media bias against him. But is it all media bias? Actually, don't answer that: I don't think it is, really.

I used to love him. But now I feel despair as I watch the party implode under his peaceful gaze, while he tends his allotment in which all his supporting MPs could easily fit.

Jeremy will I think win the leadership election. But then what? How does he form a proper opposition party with 30 or 40 actual MPs that want to work with him? Does he deselect 172 people and how does that even work without leading to a wipe-out in a general election? I used to believe in the 'Progressive Alliance' but if Labour can't form an alliance with itself, how on earth will they do it with anyone else? How will the country manage without an actual opposition? Won't the Conservatives even find it weird?

I guess it would help if anyone had a good successor in place. Why doesn't he anoint someone like Clive Lewis? He's quite good, I think. He seems better than Owen Whatsit but again, I don't know!

Either way, the party is now separated, separate bedrooms, and we're heading for a horrible divorce. Both people will want everything: funds, supporters, the soul of the party. The legal battle will ... I can't even. I think I almost want Jeremy to keep the house, ie Labour, and Everyone Else goes off, spends a few years in the wilderness, getting their shit together and practising some radical humility, and comes back as the Equality Party to start again and make everything better.

But equally, I don't know anything any more. Help! Thoughts?

EnthusiasmDisturbed Thu 21-Jul-16 09:20:40

No he is not the Labour Party's best hope those who are are not coming forward as they know they won't win

I think he will win again and Labour have to split maybe that the best thing those more centre and rohjt of the party form a new party that will appeal to more voters and get a leader that is capable of leading a party

He will never be PM his appeal is not wide enough and he has not been able to lead his party how would he lead the country

redshoeblueshoe Thu 21-Jul-16 09:32:50

And I agree with Enthusiasm grin

MangosteenSoda Thu 21-Jul-16 09:45:40

He will win the leadership election and I suspect Labour MPs will grit their teeth and bear it.

If Corbyn is to lose the leadership, it looks like it will be through the tried and tested route of losing a general election. Unfortunately, this could mean a very right wing Tory government until 2025.

eatsleephockeyrepeat Thu 21-Jul-16 12:30:24

My feeling is that even if Corbyn doesn't win and Smith goes on to somehow win a general election, that would still mean a right wing government until 2025.

I'm wrestled with myself over it and I've come to the conclusion that the only hope - however slim that hope - or having any sliver of socialism represented in parliament is through Corbyn. I also believe that although that hope may be slim it is still achievable. Potentially.

The alternative seems to be both red and blue vying to be the mouthpiece of the "voters", neither attempting to win over the population to their vision for Britain but rather resigning themselves to shape Britain in whatever image the population currently desires... that isn't right. Both parties will be the same and we will all be slaves to popular whim rather than offered real choices by credible politicians about our futures, and to me that is not the function of democracy.

OkLumberjack Thu 21-Jul-16 12:42:08

I can't see a way out of it. It's stalemate.

Ta man on the Daily Politics just said that it was never Jeremy's aim to be in actual government, just gain control of the Labour Party. Job done.

Jeremy will win again. I believe he as failed his mandate as included in his mandate is to 'lead a party and firm a shadow government' which I feel he has failed to do. A woman from Momentum said on the radio yesterday morning that they (momentum) don't necessarily believe in Party politics or even parlimentary process. Makes me feel uneasy.

If Corbyn deselects every single MP (hundreds!) then he himself is going against democracy as they were elected themselves by millions of voters.

If the party splits, I can see a high court battle for the name of the Labour Party. I'm not a Labour voter, I'm a swing voter. We, as a country need a strong Labour Party. The way things are, the party is dead as a force for actual change. It's very sad.

eatsleephockeyrepeat Thu 21-Jul-16 12:46:56

If Corbyn deselects every single MP (hundreds!) then he himself is going against democracy as they were elected themselves by millions of voters

This isn't strictly true as those MPs were nominated by their local Labour Parties. If their local parties feel they are no longer their best representatives they are fully at liberty to change them.

This usually only happens at a time of general election, so the deselected politicians would be free to stand again as independents to establish their own mandates; most of their "clout" is likely to have been because of their standing under the "Labour" banner though; historically MPs choosing to go it alone are not reelected as independents.

Underparmummy Thu 21-Jul-16 12:52:37

Politics aside a leader should be just that, a leader. It's actually a defined set of personality traits. Corbin doesn't have them. He is not a leader.

He is harming the party he claims to love at the moment.

eatsleephockeyrepeat Thu 21-Jul-16 12:57:31

Politics aside a leader should be just that, a leader. It's actually a defined set of personality traits

Well again I think that leader is one of those terms that requires a bit of context. the expectations on a leader are different depending on what they're leading. A political party is not a company; the leader is not the "boss". It's not a sports team; the leader is not the example to be followed or the mouthpiece of the coach on the pitch.

The leader of a political party is required to be both orchestrator and figurehead. Corbyn it seems is not much of an organiser, but to replace him with a fantastic administrator would be to sacrifice the role of firgure head - because lord knows the PLP couldn't produce another candidate for that in this leadership election!

So yes, he's a compromise. There is no "has it all" leader in the Labour Party right now. But frankly an organisation such as the Labour Party in parliament should be able to compensate for poor admin - even terrible admin - in this day and age. There is no compensation for an uninspiring character.

tiggytape Thu 21-Jul-16 13:08:31

Deselecting an MP has no immediate effect. It just means they cannot stand as Labour candidates at the next general election (which at the moment is a long way off). They remain MPs until then.

If Smith loses and Labour wants to a avoid a split, they will have to unite around Corbyn and make the best of it. There is no other choice.

If they won't, Smith will become leader of the opposition party. He will have enough MPs to give him the 2nd largest party in the House of Commons but it will split the party and split left wing votes. On that basis, the Tories would win in 2020. Even if Smith could gain a lot of cross party ground with thwarting or changing Brexit, and even if a General Election came in 2017 or 2018 instead of 2020, the Brexit that has already started is going to be even further underway by then and his options more and more limited (so splitting votes on what he wants the outcome to be).

If the worry is that Labour cannot beat the Tories under Corbyn, a split is not the answer. A a split potentially means years in the wilderness for the left. So the solution may be to let that play out. Let Jeremy lead the party to election defeat (he may win - who knows?!) and then say he is a disaster. At the moment he's only been in the job for a year and there are too many people who still believe in him and want to give his new brand of politics a chance. Having Owen Smith tell them that he's just the same as Jeremy but more electable is not going to convince those who are still loyal

user1468769430 Thu 21-Jul-16 13:40:15

i think there is something we dont know about him very sly keeps everybody hating blair and bulls himself up all the time, something also may said to him yesterday about exploiting the rules to further his own ambitions what did she mean and why didnt he answer,going round protesting all the time gets him followers, but gets the party nowhere its policys that are wanted,also agree with enthusiasm.time to put the past to bed and go forward.

EnthusiasmDisturbed Thu 21-Jul-16 14:02:29

I am looking further than 2020 now if Smith wins the left of the party are not going to settle down quietly and pull together (and yet they advise the rest of the party too hmm) we know how often Corbyn likes to rebel and he will continue too along with his group around him. If Corbyn wins many mp's are going to be unhappy they have no confidence in him as a leader and he has done nothing to gain that so he will not be able to unite the party.

Well done Corbyn that is one thing he will be remembered for all those times he has rebelled agains his party and now at last he has finally split the party the party he loves

Best thing is to split get a centre leader that more voters will get behind (I don't that is Owen) and we may just have a chance in 2020 and we certianly do in 2025. Corbyn and co can continue their revolution plans against the establishment while others do some real work and lead the country or lead a good and credible opposition

eatsleephockeyrepeat Thu 21-Jul-16 14:05:37

what did she mean and why didnt he answer

Um, she meant the Labour Party rules saying (contestably) that he was entitled to be on the ballot for leadership. He didn't answer because it is Prime Minister's Questions, not "Leader of the Opposition's Questions".

How about asking why May didn't directly answer so many questions put to her. Not as bad a Cameron, granted; he was the worst! What exactly are they there for if not to ANSWER QUESTIONS. It's the Punch and Judy show for the Tories; it's contemptible.

EnthusiasmDisturbed Thu 21-Jul-16 14:20:25

yes labour lead by great example of throwing little red books around hmm

eatsleephockeyrepeat Thu 21-Jul-16 14:27:52

yes labour lead by great example of throwing little red books around

I don't understand the reference?

EnthusiasmDisturbed Thu 21-Jul-16 14:58:34

John McDonnell and the Mao's Little Red Book

Google it it was hilarious hmm

eatsleephockeyrepeat Thu 21-Jul-16 15:05:15

Oh dear, it didn't pan out for him did it! At least the point he was trying to make was political and not personal though...

condaleeza Thu 21-Jul-16 15:06:44

Why do people keep churning out the 'man of integrity line?' I just don't see it. He is on his third marriage to an invisible wife. He is a narcissist who collects acolytes. His politics are those of the far left in the 1970s, he has never adapted and moved on.

eatsleephockeyrepeat Thu 21-Jul-16 15:26:53

I just don't see it. He is on his third marriage to an invisible wife

I'm honestly not the Corbyn lover some Labour party members are but seriously, I'm divorced and my work colleagues wouldn't know my dp if they bumped into him in the street. I appreciate I'm not a politician but this is quite a low bar for writing off someone's professional integrity.

It's not like he engaged in sexual activity in his office and then denied it fervently all over the media.

redshoeblueshoe Thu 21-Jul-16 16:20:36

condealeeza - totally agree that he's stuck in the 70's. I too don't get the Man of integrity I am also bored and pissed off with him at PMQ's saying and Lisa from Leicester wants to know . . . .

EnthusiasmDisturbed Thu 21-Jul-16 18:15:02

Man of principle, grassroots support aka the working class, establishment conspiracy against him is all pr spin

And for him to tell mp's to get behind labour is a fucking joke after his history of rebelling hmm

DoctorTwo Thu 21-Jul-16 19:44:19

Corbyn will win the leadership. I hope any Labour MPs who continue to piss and moan are deselected by their local branch.

As for Owen Smith being 'as radical as Corbyn', well, frankly that's enough to make a cat laugh.

Corbyn has one thing going for him that no other party leader has: young people now feel there is a leader who speaks for them, he gives them hope. My own DCs all work, and only one can afford to rent a house, albeit with her partner who's in a reasonably well paid job. They and their friends (apart from DD2) weren't interested in politics as policies always took money away from them, then along comes Corbyn and they all think he's the one for them. He could win in 2020.

EnthusiasmDisturbed Thu 21-Jul-16 20:27:10

No doubt he will win the leadership

But he will never be PM he will probably be the man that split the Labour Party

lljkk Thu 21-Jul-16 23:03:09

Gosh, is splitting LP worse than Cameron's legacy ("the man who took UK out of EU").

Angela Eagle told by police to suspend constituency surgeries. sad

"Folk say I'm a terrible boss but that's because they aren't blessed with perfect principles like me. I run the company now and they can't make me leave. Neener neener neener."

LowDudgeon Thu 21-Jul-16 23:43:44

'Merseyside Police said its advice was given at the MP's request.
'Earlier this week a man was bailed in Scotland after being arrested on suspicion of making threats to kill in an email to the MP.
'Det Ch Insp Kenwright said: "The decision to cancel surgeries is not a police matter and would lie entirely with them."'

So she wasn't 'told by police to cancel surgeries', was she?

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