Talk

Advanced search

The assumption that leave voters are disenfranchised poor?

(92 Posts)
TrueBlueYorkshire Tue 12-Jul-16 11:19:07

AIBU to be annoyed at the rhetoric used in the mainstream press that somehow leave voters are the disenfranchised poor from midland and northern areas.

If you look at the demographics areas i would actually say the opposite, Scotland, Northern Ireland and London contain a much larger population of asset poor people. While the rest of the country including the South and North outside of London who voted leave are asset owning, local community minded people. They voted leave to protect their communities.

I hold a commonwealth and British passport and voted remain for business reasons, but am very sympathetic with leave voters. Most of my family and friends in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa are completely sympathetic with leave voters too.

angelos02 Tue 12-Jul-16 11:20:57

Among my friends, most have a household income over £100k per year, almost all voted to leave.

t4gnut Tue 12-Jul-16 11:22:58

There are multiple camps, but generally leave voters were the over 65s, the disenfranchised with nothing to lose and the chronic fuckwits.

SteviebunsBottrittrundle Tue 12-Jul-16 11:26:22

The over 65s are more likely to be asset holding and more likely to vote leave I think.

I suspect one of my friends voted leave though; she is mid-30s, much, much wealthier than me (and your average person) and lives in the Home Counties. That's just anecdata though.

MoggyP Tue 12-Jul-16 11:29:18

I think YABalittleU in starting yet another thread about stereotyping (and demonising.) Leave voters, and not doing so in the topic.

AndNowItsSeven Tue 12-Jul-16 11:31:02

Yabu, some like yourself voted for selfish perceived self interest.

Italktomycat Tue 12-Jul-16 11:35:40

Hmm that's not what I think. Most of my family (the over 45's) have voted to leave. Most of them are very well off. My dads side voted to leave too but they are not so well
Off. At hey are also older. I wonder if it's a generational thing. I'm a remainder and so are all my cousins/brothers

akkakk Tue 12-Jul-16 11:44:11

There are multiple camps, but generally leave voters were the over 65s, the disenfranchised with nothing to lose and the chronic fuckwits.

Amazed that you have such accurate stats as to know this wink

Sometimes there is pain in facing up to the truth for those who prefer inaccurate sound-bites supporting their own position - but the reality is that this is not accurate...

There are some facts which I believe are known:
- younger generations showed a poorer turnout
- older generations showed a higher turnout
- general turnout was high
- a majority voted to leave

we don't really know much more...
we can work on the basis that the majority of voters are not:
- over 65
- disenfranchised
- chronic fuckwits

Therefore I suspect that your assumptions are generally c. 100% wrong grin

I suspect that for many with wealth there was less perceived risk in leaving as generally a cushion of wealth allows you to cope better with the unknown. Equally, disruptive changes are an opportunity to make money - why has the pound and stock market been reacting as it has - not because of any underlying change in the asset value or financial stability of the UK or its companies - but because a time of change is a chance for speculators to make money - so for many of the wealthy, they can arguably desire disruptive change as they are not personally affected, and can make money from it...

Similarly for those with financial instability, or less understanding of issues change can be more scary, so there might be a tendancy to have voted remain not leave... particularly if there is some risk (mortgage / jobs / etc.)

The poor are more similar to the wealthy - if you have nothing, you have nothing to lose, so change is okay...

In Argentina in the early part of this century when there was a financial crash, the wealthy had their money off-shore and were not affected, as the value of assets (e.g. property) plummeted, they brought cash back into the country and purchased assets making themselves rich... The poor had nothing to lose, so were no worse off... The middle-class though had plenty to lose, not enough wealth to have hedged the changes / have their wealth off-shore and were virtually wiped out...

So I suspect if anything the poor / wealthy may have been more likely to vote leave, the middle class to vote remain

but we won't ever 100% know...

BillSykesDog Tue 12-Jul-16 11:57:07

I think the word you're ignoring OP is 'disenfranchised'. Scotland has a very popular nationalist party which represents the interests of only the Scottish people and is perceived by many to do it very effectively. Plus Labour are desperate to win back the Scots so they are very much courting them and thus paying attention to their interests. Scots aren't likely to feel disenfranchised and are also much more likely to believe that their parties are genuinely acting in their interests when they tell them to vote remain.

Ditto N Ireland with it's localised parties based along sectarian lines which explicitly cater to the communities they represent.

London is very much the spiritual home of the current Labour Party which is massively Londoncentric in it's outlook. I don't think many Londoners feel disenfranchised because the main parties represent their views and interests well.

Outside of that, yes, I think disenfranchised voters were an issue for huge swathes of the country, and not just poor ones either. Anti-EU Tories who felt their party wasn't listening, Labour voters who are taken for granted because their seats are so safe they know they could put up a pig in a red rosette and it would win.

PortiaCastis Tue 12-Jul-16 12:02:10

There is an EU topic ask MNHQ to move your thread to it.

RufusTheReindeer Tue 12-Jul-16 12:24:48

akk

The young had a turnout of 64%

Its being reported in a few if the papers now

akkakk Tue 12-Jul-16 12:44:46

thank you Rufus - you are correct, higher than thought - in fact c. double what was claimed by some...

However, that Opiniumr eport would appear to be suggesting:

64% of 18-24
65% of 25-39
66% of 40-54
74% of 55-64
90% of 65+

Against an overall average of 72.2%
Gives pause for thought...

The dominant voice can only be determined by also understanding those age groups potential voters as a % of the total - but it is clear that engagement was higher amongst older groups...

RufusTheReindeer Tue 12-Jul-16 13:15:26

Only in the 55 plus groups

The other three are too close imo

Age 59 and over would be the ones that had the opportunity to vote in the 1975 referendum....it doesnt surpise me at all that they had a substantially higher percentage

akkakk Tue 12-Jul-16 13:23:11

Agreed - that is undoubtedly an influencing factor - in addition, an age where they were more aware of pre-EU life / possibly an age where voting is more important - seen as a responsibility...

I have family in the S Wales valleys the sort of Labour heartlands where it is hardly worth any other party standing. Those areas like Rhondda Cynon Taf and Blaenau Gwent all voted leave.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-36619410

They do feel forgotten by Westminster. Their perception is that Brussels controls any EU funding that comes back so it is spent on what Brussels think is a good idea not on what the locals feel they need.
However, I think there is a bigger issue - this is an area where traditional heavy industry has gone leaving an employment and social vacuum so people don't feel in control of their lives. One strong theme I have heard is the idea of being controlled by Brussels and how a vote leave was all about taking back control. So I do think disenfranchisement and sidelining of the interests and needs of some traditional industrial areas boosted the leave vote there.

ReallyTired Tue 12-Jul-16 13:33:58

A vote is a vote. The Welsh ex steel worker's vote is of equal worth to the London yuppie's vote.

I feel it's ironic that the Conservative party is making more effort to improve the lot of deprived areas than labour. (Ie. Getting the best teachers into deprived area, offering them a say in the future of the Europe via referedrum, looking to curb unskilled migration)

Dutchcourage Tue 12-Jul-16 13:36:50

We have a few buisness and do ok. We voted leave - so did our buisness partners.

I think it's just media bull to whip up a frenzy

WibblyWobblyJellyHead Tue 12-Jul-16 13:40:09

From a very scientific (!) study of my FB feed and relatives. I'd have to agree that all the Leavers I know fall into three camps.

Poor/disenfranchised people (mainly in social housing)

The over 65s who want a return to 'Great Britain, standing on its own'

Racist fuckwits.

ThroughThickAndThin01 Tue 12-Jul-16 13:43:55

We are in the 'affluent' South east, degree educated blah blah, we voted to leave as did many of our friends aged 40 - 55, City workers and small business owners, plus quite a few of our just voting age children. I know quite a few remain voters of course, but in our circle I'd say it was 50:50.

RiverTam Tue 12-Jul-16 13:48:22

No, the young didn't have a turnout of 65%. More over 65s voted to remain than did 18-24s, in fact every age group had more Remainers than the youngest. 75% of their voters did vote remain, but only about a third turned out. I'm going to try to attach an info graphic showing this from Lord Ashcroft's poling.

RufusTheReindeer Tue 12-Jul-16 13:56:32

river

The figure of 36% has been disproved now

Laiste Tue 12-Jul-16 13:57:18

So - once we're totally absolutely sure of who all the leave voters were, what's planned? Ban them from ever voting again? I don't understand why this is being gone over again and again and again.

About the most we can summarize from thrashing this out is that the remain camp (who ever it's decided they are) didn't care enough to turn out in enough numbers to get the vote to go the other way. That might be a more interesting question now. Why was that?

Owllady Tue 12-Jul-16 14:00:29

Our wc Midland relatives all voted in
Mc home counties (us) also voted in
I only know one person who voted out, but I suppose you tend to mix with those with similar political and moral leanings as yourself, wherever you live!

Owllady Tue 12-Jul-16 14:01:33

Maybe they remained at home laiste? wink

Laiste Tue 12-Jul-16 14:05:51

grin v.good

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now