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Brexit

What do you say to people who blame immigration for the fact school places are in short supply?

144 replies

Lottielou7 · 10/07/2016 22:15

Of the few people I know who voted for Brexit, they are adamant that school places are difficult to get because of immigration. The one who says it the most has 6 children! I can't stand this scapegoating. Personally, I think birth rates have risen generally. My friends and I all mostly have 3 children. I'm an only and as a child of the 80s people had mostly one or two.

So what do you say in response when people come out with this old chestnut.

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BlueEyeshadow · 10/07/2016 22:18

There are some answers in this article:

from the TES - to do with austerity and government policy deliberately preventing local authorities from opening new schools.

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evelynj · 10/07/2016 22:29

Well for some people that is their experience as they see foreigners 'getting' places in local schools etc easier.

My dd is going to a playgroup in sep & at the open day more than half the children were Eastern European-this is in a small town, not a thriving city. The nursery had their funding cut & a family I know had their child moved to another school unit. You can't dismiss other people's experiences as scapegoating. What's the issue that they've got 6 children & you've got 3. It sounds that you think you're more entitled as you've got less dc?

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tiggytape · 10/07/2016 22:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

evelynj · 10/07/2016 23:13

I agree the infrastructure hasn't been supported by government. To allow for our own population increase but am fed up with the shifty attitude towards anyone who voted leave

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GiddyOnZackHunt · 10/07/2016 23:22

Government policy has forbidden Local Authorities to open new state schools. Any new schools should be free schools opened up where there is need. Schools can expand too.
This more than anything else has led to a shortage of places as the population grows. Immigration has undoubtedly contributed to increased demand but the ideological refusal to increase LA schools is the reason demand is outstripping supply. State schools will become poorer in terms of funding and face further pressure on class sizes because of dogma.

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Lottielou7 · 10/07/2016 23:25

. 'It sounds that you think you're more entitled as you've got less dc?'

Fewer, not less. What am I saying I am more entitled to exactly? What bolleaux. I am merely saying the birth rate has risen, that I understand that as someone who has 3 DC (so do all my friends) and that someone with 6 children should understand this and really shouldn't be pointing the finger at other people and blaming anyone but them them for not having enough school places.

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Comingfoccacia · 10/07/2016 23:27

Baby boom coupled with lack of new schools

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smallfox2002 · 10/07/2016 23:29

I'd be a geek and use data and say that 87% of children get their first choice primary school place.

The most challenged areas in London the figure is 70%, and there are NO cases of children not being offered education provision within their borough.

I'd go further and say 80% of secondary school children get their first choice too.

The issues with school places have been magnified by the fact that since 2010, when people started warning of a need for increased places, there has been little or no movement by the government to increase the number of places available, magnified by the cutting of places as demand dropped between 2000 and 2008.

Now, immigration is going to be a factor, but only 4 % of the UK population are EU immigrants, and a smaller number than that. If you look at CB claims for 900,000 children ( many of these will be the children of UK nationals too) and there are 8.56 million school children in the UK then a little over 10% of children in UK schools are going to be the child of one EU national, which is a generalisation a good number of these children won't yet be of school age.

The number of children in primary schools increased by 105,000 between jan 2015 and Jan 2016, as was in line with expectations. However the proportion of childen in infant classes has fallen very slightly since last year but is still higher than in previous years.

Over all, the admissions policies to schools (and if you've ever seen any of the loopiness about school "choices" on here and some of the stuff people do) are strict, they don't favour anyone British or non.

What I'd say to someone complaining about immigration is:

"If an immigrant child/child of immigrants has got a place at the school you want it can be down to a myriad of factors, and without that child there it doesn't mean that your child would get the place anyway. "

Its not fair to blame immigration, its a cop out.

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Lottielou7 · 10/07/2016 23:31

'but am fed up with the shifty attitude towards anyone who voted leave'

So now that we have voted Leave, you think that a right wing Tory government who thinks anyone that matters uses independent schools is going to suddenly invest in Local Authority schools and address the problem of lack of school places being taken by all he forriners?

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Just5minswithDacre · 10/07/2016 23:33

Fewer, not less

Fwoof. Not a good look OP.

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smallfox2002 · 10/07/2016 23:35

Also, looking at the ethnic origin tables from the Government:

75% of primary school children are White British or non white British.

10.6% are Asian.

10.4% are black or "mixed" (their terms not mine)

1.8% are "other" which would be the ones from the EU.

1.2% are "unclassified" (again their terms, not mine)

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Snog · 10/07/2016 23:35

I view this issue as a failure of the government to plan properly.

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Lottielou7 · 10/07/2016 23:38

Just - I don't care. I've just been accused of thinking I'm more entitled to...what exactly?! Because I object to racism, xenophobia and scapegoating. It makes me irritable I'm afraid...

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Just5minswithDacre · 10/07/2016 23:39

The thing is, immigration undoubtedly is one contributing factor of several, but - along with the general baby boom - it feeds into the issue that numbers have been known and should have been planned for.

The government wants/needs the labour force that it wants/needs, and it needs a young generation of future taxpayers too.

But the labour force inevitably have children and the future taxpayers are children. So clearly school places are needed in sufficient numbers.

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Lottielou7 · 10/07/2016 23:41

We need more school places, but a right wing Tory government won't give a shit about that will they?

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Just5minswithDacre · 10/07/2016 23:42

Children starting school now, or in school now, weren't even born under this hellish govt, were they?

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Just5minswithDacre · 10/07/2016 23:42

There's been a long lead-in to this current crisis.

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smallfox2002 · 10/07/2016 23:49

Children starting school now, were mostly born in 2011 Dacre.

We knew in 2010/2011 that there was a baby boom (25% of births are to a mother that is non UK btw) but there has been an increase in British Nationals and immigrants giving birth.

Its lack of planning, the academy policy is especially poor for this because LEAs can't open new schools, academy's can, but many of them and the free schools have opened in places with surplus spaces already!

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Just5minswithDacre · 10/07/2016 23:49

Quite.

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Lottielou7 · 10/07/2016 23:50

Well yes. But some people apparently voted out because they thought it would resolve this. I'm just wondering why they couldn't see the outcome = right wing Tory government who we didn't even bloody elect coming to power and probably giving less of a shit about things like school places than the lot before. To me it seemed obvious that this would happen in the event of Brexit.

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NoBetterName · 10/07/2016 23:51

I wonder what the attitude is to dc like mine? Dual citizens. Are they uk citizens when it suits people, but immigrants when it doesn't? Regardless of context, I have the "them and us" mentality which is becoming more prevalent.

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Just5minswithDacre · 10/07/2016 23:52

I'm still hoping that the old tradition of periodic general elections will continue, myself.

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NoBetterName · 10/07/2016 23:52

*hate

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Lottielou7 · 10/07/2016 23:54

Exactly, NoBetter. One of my children has a EU national father. Most people don't know this - as far as they're concerned she's British national because I am.

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Lottielou7 · 10/07/2016 23:58

A parent at dd3's school had some idiot square up to her and say 'how do you feel about being half Italian now, eh?' The morning after the referendum.

There are many people I know who came here from Poland or Italy and have married UK citizens and had children here. I find it unbelievable that they should have to put up with this nonsense.

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