Leave voters, how much would you pay to leave the EU?

(76 Posts)
fakenamefornow Sat 09-Jul-16 11:35:05

I have sensed a change of mood. In that lots of leave voters seem to have accepted that leaving the EU will make us poorer, and that that's ok, money isn't everything and it's a price worth paying. I never heard this view before the ref.

So, my question is , if you knew Brexit would result in the UK being poorer would you still vote for it?
If Brexit resulted in the break up of the UK would you vote for it?
If it restarted the troubles in NI would you vote for it?

This isn't to have a go btw. I have spoken to some who believe almost any price is worth it to leave the EU.

I'm a remain voter. Being in the EU and having free movement across the other 27 states is very valuable to me, I would vote to remain even if I knew it would make us poorer. If staying in the EU caused the break up of the UK or endangered the NI peace , that would be too high a price and I'd vote out.

RortyCrankle Sat 09-Jul-16 12:35:27

1. I accept the country may initially be poorer in the short term but believe it will be financially successful in the long term.

2. I voted Leave believing it to be best for the whole country, ie 65 million people. If 5 million (ie Scotland) don't wish to be a part of the UK that is entirely up to them.

3. Of course I would not vote for troubles to restart in NI. Why do you assume they would?

Carpaccio Sat 09-Jul-16 12:52:51

Rorty, how long is "the short term" in your opinion? 5 years? 10 years? 15 or 20 years?

My2favboys Sat 09-Jul-16 12:57:13

I think n. Ireland will have to look at whether they would be better off with the UK or joining the Republic and being part of the eu. Depending on how economically bad things get in N. Ireland there is always the chance that more people call for a united Ireland causing unionists to panic. NI already has had a US investment meeting cancelled because of Brexit

Thegirlinthefireplace Sat 09-Jul-16 12:57:32

Rorty would you explain how you believe the recovery would happen? Ie what will replace the financial services sector and the many operations only in Uk because of EU/single market membership?

caroldecker Sat 09-Jul-16 13:28:45

Many countries (about 167) and many people (about 6.5 billion) manage without being in the EU. Of these many have a better standard of living than we do.
It is possible.

Thegirlinthefireplace Sat 09-Jul-16 13:37:41

Yes Carol, this is the type of "answer" I always get but it doesn't actually answer the question, how will we replace what is lost and what with?! No one answers this. No one.

lovelyupnorth Sat 09-Jul-16 13:43:04

And not all those countries border the Eu and their next door neighbor. It has taken Switzerland 45 years to negoicate their trade agreements. And that wasn't after they put 2 fingers upto 27 of them.

I think we're nuts and will fight my bit to ensure we don't leave if at all possible.

MangoMoon Sat 09-Jul-16 13:47:00

So, my question is , if you knew Brexit would result in the UK being poorer would you still vote for it?

Yes. It was about much, much more than just 'money'.
This has been discussed at length across many threads.

If Brexit resulted in the break up of the UK would you vote for it?

It is up to the population of those countries if they wish to remain part of the UK or not.
They either want to be a part of UK or they don't. That is the bottom line.

If it restarted the troubles in NI would you vote for it?

NI within itself and ROI/NI were divided long before UK joined the EU.
The NI question is so much bigger than whether or not we are part of the EU.
If extremists within NI restart their terror campaign, then using Brexit as a reason for doing so is flimsy & disingenuous.

fakenamefornow Sat 09-Jul-16 14:20:29

I don't really get your answers to questions 2 and 3, I think you're saying yes you would vote out if this was the result.

I think a few people are so passionate about leaving the EU they are willing to pay almost any price.

fakenamefornow Sat 09-Jul-16 14:21:38

Btw, I agree about the money, in that I would rather be poorer and IN the EU than richer out.

fakenamefornow Sat 09-Jul-16 14:23:47

Re NI/ROI Brexit certainly could upset the balance and I don't think it's irrelevant and should be ignored, it seems you think differently, maybe?

MangoMoon Sat 09-Jul-16 14:39:40

I don't really get your answers to questions 2 and 3, I think you're saying yes you would vote out if this was the result.

Answers to 2 & 3 are exactly what I said.
It really isn't about EU membership or not for these countries, it's about whether they want to remain as part of the U.K. or not.

What I think doesn't matter a jot, and it's not for me to decide or pontificate on.

Personally, I would like the UK to remain united, but if the people of Scotland & NI don't want that, that's their decision to make.

Remain part of the EU? No, I don't want that - over 17 million voters (the majority) didn't want that, so I voted accordingly.

Re NI/ROI Brexit certainly could upset the balance and I don't think it's irrelevant and should be ignored, it seems you think differently, maybe?

I do not want to remain in the EU.
I voted to say that.
Of course I care about people being senselessly & needlessly assaulted & murdered - but the people who choose to do those things choose to do them.
Nobody forces someone to be a terrorist, or to use threats of violence or actual violence to make a point.

To make leave voters somehow feel responsible for the chosen actions of adults elsewhere is abhorrent.

It shouldn't be ignored, of course.
This is now something that needs to be addressed - what do the people of NI & ROI want?

The rest of the UK should not be held to ransom by a vocal minority imo.

MangoMoon Sat 09-Jul-16 14:41:07

*a vocal or potentially violent minority

Lighteningirll Sat 09-Jul-16 15:18:39

Happy to be poorer and out of the EU (helped by the fact that I believe the very poorest in our society will benefit and happy to pay that cost)
The UK should not try to hold a Scotland that genuinely wants to leave (the EU don't want Scotland as it wouldn't be a net contributor and would set a bad precedent for for other EU 'regions'). Scotland had a referendum and voted to stay if they wish to have (and pay for another) fine, just abide by it no more willy waving its pointless.
As for NI your being a goady fucker I had family killed in the troubles using a resurgence as a threat is shameful

lovelyupnorth Sat 09-Jul-16 15:32:19

You believe the conservative government is going to be better for the poor than being in the EU really.

And I hope Ni and Scotland go. Good on them.

It's a sad reflection on our society that being the 5th largest economy in the world we aren't will to help any one but ourselves. But then again we are a very me me me country and society. Sad really.

And what about the poor fuckers in Gibraltar, Spain's gunning for them now.

MangoMoon Sat 09-Jul-16 16:24:36

And what about the poor fuckers in Gibraltar, Spain's gunning for them now.

What of them?

They're part of the U.K.
What do you think Spain is going to do?

fakenamefornow Sat 09-Jul-16 16:33:34

As for NI your being a goady fucker

No I'm not. We were told this was a risk, NI voted in. This stuff keeps me awake at night.

As for saying they can have a ref, they chose, that's simplistic in the extreme considering how the sides are split.

fakenamefornow Sat 09-Jul-16 16:38:23

I remember when Spain joined the EU they had to ease the entrance/exit controls between Spain and Gibraltar. I was a child and remember seeing it on TV. I think they took barriers down the day before membership. The EU has definitely had a hand in keeping Spanish and British relations smooth over Gibraltar imo.

Joysmum Sat 09-Jul-16 16:40:00

1)
I voted to leave based on the UK having a tougher time for a max of 4 years. This gives time to negotiate a free trade agreement with the EU and trade deals with other worldwide trade blocks which we've not been able to do.

However after that time I believe we'll be better off because we can maximise our trading potential with the emerging world economies which the EU has been a barrier to and offers faster growth potential.

2)
Funny how in order to keep the UK together we've needed devolution. Effectively those of us voting to leave the EU was our bid for devolution too and yet the closer integration aiming for a European superstate isn't seen as a problem and Brexiters aren't allowed to want a similar thing!

Northern Ireland and Scotland are more dependent on UK trade than EU trade so if they choose to leave the UK in favour of trying to remain in the EU (not convinced they'd meet the criteria if not part of the U.K.) then more fool them!

3)
Nobody wants the troubles to start again but Northern Ireland and Scotland both have to do what they think is right for them, just as I have voted what I believe is right for my country.

Strip out the Northern Ireland and Scotland vote and the English and Welsh proportion of Leave voters is far greater!

MangoMoon Sat 09-Jul-16 17:21:37

Turnout figures (Low to High):

NI 62.9%

Scotland 67.2%

Wales 71.7%

England 73%

We were told this was a risk, NI voted in. This stuff keeps me awake at night.

If it wasn't important enough for 37.1% of NI registered voters to have their voices heard, then why should Leave voters who did go out and make their vote be held accountable?

Scotland - 32.8% couldn't be bothered to vote; again, why should 17+ million people who did care enough to vote be vilified for doing something that they were invited to do?

I would have more sympathy if there had been a higher turnout from NI & Scotland tbh.
If those extra people had voted, what would the result have been?

Lighteningirll Sat 09-Jul-16 17:28:11

What percentage of 18 to 24 year olds voted? I think I read 34% was that across Scotland and Ireland as well?

MangoMoon Sat 09-Jul-16 17:38:12

I'd presume that was across the whole UK, yes.

MangoMoon Sat 09-Jul-16 17:39:37

A group I have no sympathy for tbh - lots of social media outrage & marching, but spectacularly failed to translate their 'feeling' into actual, tangible voting.

specialsubject Sat 09-Jul-16 19:34:48

Lightening girl - no one knows these figures.

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