What the what?(38 Posts)
Had coffee with an old friend yesterday. Hadn't seen her in months, and I was quite cheery considering, and feeling better about this country. Said friend was very pleased to have voted Leave and have won.
But (wait for it)
- she didn't know what a free trade agreement was;
- she didn't know that some parts of the U.K. Are receiving subsidies, investment in scientific research, regeneration, etc
- she thought that the Remain side lost because of all the lies they said during the campaign;
- she is expecting non British Europeans to be deported, at least those who don't work, and when I said that deportation would probably not happen she said that there would be uprising in this country when leave voters would realise that Europens would stay here.
What the what? I don't know how I managed to keep a straight face...
I spoke to a leave voter this morning who hadn't realised there were two George Bushes - the Chilcot enquiry news was on the TV in the background. Tbh I wasn't very surprised.
Oh how terribly amusing to sneer at an obviously thick 'friend'. I'm sure it boosted your feeling of superiority no end, not that it probably needed boosting.
I know it's jolly good fun to believe that not a single Leave voter knows anything about anything and more bolstering of ego is always useful.
Did I say that forty? Did I really say that every single person who voted leav was thick? Where? Where? Can you not read?
Did I really say that every single person who voted leav was thick? Where? Where? Can you not read?
Happens on every referendum thread. Any less than glowing comment results in furious accusations of sneering and labelling of all Leave voters. Attack as a form of defence. It can be effective technique for silencing not just dissent (which would be bad enough) but any hint of an uncomplimentary sentiment toward the "victors".
It's almost as if they lack confidence in their victory, this constant need for validation .
My EXPERT (= not at all expert) view is that she voted leave because of some combination of:
She was lied to about what a Leave win would mean and/or be able to do:
She hasn't bothered to inform herself about the most basic facts of what EU membership means or entails:
She is as thick as a bucket of pigshit.
Hope that helps.
Empress, you could ask her instead of insulting her..
Indeed, it is the politico's refusal to listen that seems to underly a lot of the reasons why people voted leave... But I suspect you won't listen to this either.
How could Empress ask her?
Presumably, they don't even know her!
On the flip side, I know someone who voted to remain because she thought she wouldn't be able to play euromillions.
Plenty of people would have had incorrect or misinformed reasons for voting either way. To be honest I think even those who think they have a good grip on it (and I'm including myself in this) probably don't.
I can understand the frustration though; voting for something so potentially catastrophic either way without bothering to look at the issues closely is foolish. I know of several people who abstained because they didn't understand the issues and I think that was the right thing to do.
It's why I'm against compulsory voting.
Have you no feeling? I am having a good rant and you point out the bleeding obvious
To be fair, I have done some canvassing (not much for the referendum), and you'd be surprised at the utterly random reasons people have for their vote. And the confusion about who is who and what they're voting for.
A lot of UKIP voters concerned about potholes, for example
or don't want to say the real reason
It's just particularly gutting in such a close vote, with such massive consequences, when you start scratching the surface of reasons for votes and open a whole can of worms (to mix metaphors)
The fact is that many people (probably on both sides) were extraordinarily ill-informed. It was a complex issue in many ways. However, there is a difference between being ill -informed and voting to keep things as they are and being ill-informed and voting for something that will dramatically change your country and the lives of everyone in it.
It is also extremely irresponsible of the government to ask the public to vote on something they must have known people didn't understand about. I know quite a lot about the EU ( through a related degree) and have said for years that the public on the UK generally have a very poor understanding of how it actually works. This is without doubt due to a lot of very poor and biased media reporting over the years.
Of course there will be people who informed themselves and voted accordingly. But there will be a sizeable number that didn't, or weren't able to. That, coupled with the fact that nobody made clear what a leave vote actually means, is going to make negotiating a future relationship with Europe very challenging.
I love these threads.
Sneering at your friend obviously makes you feel better.
Do you think she would have voted differently had she understood some of these things properly let's leave the deportation issue to one side for the sake of argument although you may want to re-think friendships with such people)
For example - sovereignty. In the so-called "thick" friend's eyes, she probably thinks "bit weird this EU lark means that the country where I live no longer makes up many rules. See - even my tampon costs more. Bit shite that"
Or, perhaps, "this EU has lots of different countries and everyone can live where we want. Most people speak English and lots of these EU countries are a bit poor right now. There isn't much housing round here. But because of the rules stuff, we can't say no right now to these people. It's maybe ok right now. But i am worried that this will get worse as that Cameron prick admitted he can't change it. Maybe free movement causes problems but everyone tells me it's good"
Or muses said thicko - "the EU is meant to help its citizens. But it's really weird, right, because them Greek people are being right royally shafted and even committing suicide. I don't know what a Eurozone is but I think it means Germany decides economic conditions for that Greece place. See now, everyone tells me, the thick friend, that this Eurozone thing is good. But I like Greek people and nearly half their young are out of work"
Shall I continue? Thick friend "all them clever expert people tells me that we need this EU. And that my country will stop working if we don't. There are lots of clever people in London. Lots of money. But they forgot to tell me the banks were a bunch of shiteheads. They didn't warn me the last time the money in the world went haywire. And these experts thought it was a good idea for our banks to buy stuff full of debts that couldn't be repaid. See, I'm thick but I think that isn't so clever. So maybe I'm not that thick. And they tell me my country is doing well but I can't get Wayne into the village school no more. And they tell me it will take years to sell stuff to Europe. But they have told me lots of things that I think some it is made up but I don't know what bits. So I don't believe no one like"
"I read that leaflet on the EU. It's very impressive. There is Council and a Commision and Parliament and that moves around to make sure French people are happy. Some of these people meet in secret. My clever friend round the corner, who I find increasingly patronising, even told me than the elected people from each county can't even suggest new rules. She said this is great!"
My granny round the corner, she says she voted last time for countries to sell stuff. She said she agree to this shite. I like my granny. Everyone says old people are old fashioned. But she talks sense my granny as she has been here a while and loves Wayne and thinks it's best for him if we get out this EU thing.
I think I might just have a nice cup of tea and have a think now.
Rooner, I have seen reasoned arguments for both sides.
But the votes based on ridiculous falsehoods, like the ones the OP outlines, make me more and more sure the referendum was a very bad way for a country to make such a complex and important decision.
But then, apparently we voted for a referendum. Except, I didn't. But my vote on whether to have a referendum didn't count. Only my actual vote in the referendum counted.
I don't disagree sanity in some respects
however i think Cameron had to respond to the Eurosceptics on both sides.
When you think about it - the implications of being in the EU are huge but we last had a referendum in 1975 and that was for people to enter into a trading arrangement.
I also don't dismiss the elderly vote and neither do I think the less intellectual are unable to consider things.
I do, however, agree that both sides were dreadful leading up to the referendum
agree it shouldnt have been put to the public.
on the news last night they were asking people on the street, Teresa May or Andrea Leadsom.
why were they asking? It is Not some sort of X factor. People on the street have no choice, and nor should they in times of such importance.
Oh good. Another "leavers bashing" thread. Where all those who voted leave are thick as pig shite and everyone who voted remain are so clever. Where all the remain politicians were transparent and the leavers were liars. Because we all know politicians always tell the truth.
You're friend voted you out of a dictatorship. Thank her. She did you a HUGE favor.
Dictatorship? This country is about to get a PM elected by an almost vanishingly small percentage of the population. How's that for a lack of democracy?
Here we go again.
Let's make out that leavers are uneducated.
I do love people spouting bollocks about bollocks. Dicatorship - did you miss the euro elections every time then and I guess you got to vote for the queen and House of Lords. The eu is no more a dictatorship than the UK.
Let's just hope it's not the cluster fuck it looks like it is now.
And just think the brexit vote might have handed another total cluster fuck to the world. Have you seen how the nutters and racists in the states have jumped on the back of it.
Wow talk about stereotype!
Not all leavers are racist
I'm with you op. It's a despicable state of affairs.
Quite aside from the economic catastrophe, the country is now facing near political meltdown too. And of course Boris and DC have washed their hands of it
Sorry, was sidetracked. But there's no doubt that some brexiters voted for brexit without really understanding the implications. But I also know some brexiters bright enough to see through the brexit camp's lies and still, genuinely, felt it was a good idea (we've agreed to disagree).
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