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General Election BEFORE ARticle 50

(48 Posts)
citroenpresse Mon 04-Jul-16 00:49:04

According to Nick Clegg in the Guardian, BREXIT so far has been ‘a debilitating cocktail of hubris, incompetence and dishonesty’. In an article for the Guardian, he suggests that a general election should take place before Article 50 is triggered. Given that Switzerland is STILL struggling to come to any agreement with the EU (some two years after their referendum took place in 2014) this seems pretty sane. Surely the leader of a country conducting such a momentous negotiation is something all citizens should have a say in, not just members of the Tory party?

Buttonmoonb4tea Mon 04-Jul-16 00:59:07

I read the article and I'm in agreement, but how would a GE be triggered at this stage?

Spinflight Mon 04-Jul-16 01:03:42


Nick Clegg knows full well that the fixed term parliament act requires an election in 2020.

He drafted the legislation to prevent the libdems from being dumped half way through the last term!!!

citroenpresse Mon 04-Jul-16 01:09:53

Yes indeed re writing the legislation(!) but I think it is a two thirds majority. Difficult to tell whether the Tories would go for this (or 100 of them, anyway). Or whether it would cause even more uncertainty.

Just5minswithDacre Mon 04-Jul-16 02:09:03

He drafted the legislation to prevent the libdems from being dumped half way through the last term!!!

Maybe his memory's gone a bit since he's been out of office.

RortyCrankle Mon 04-Jul-16 03:11:32

Honestly, a GE is not going to happen - he can say what he likes but it doesn't make it so.

TwoLittleBlooms Mon 04-Jul-16 09:33:01

A GE can be triggered early (snap election) by a vote of no confidence in the government and where a new government can not be put together in 14 days or 2/3 of MPs vote in favour of snap election - they are the only two ways it can be triggered early.

missmoon Mon 04-Jul-16 09:45:07

I can (just about) see a vote of no confidence happening, leading to a GE. But it requires Labour getting their act together! I also think a GE is the best way out of this mess. Reading the clear arguments in Nick Clegg's article was the first time I've felt calm in two weeks. At least it sets out a plan with plenty of checks and balances and possibilities for consensus building. This is what David Cameron (and the Tory government) should have done, instead of running around like headless chickens.

A4Document Mon 04-Jul-16 09:56:52

It's only 10 days since the referendum result, and the Tories are sorting themselves out with a leader to take things forward. I don't think there should be a GE just because the leader of an anti-Brexit party wants one.

citroenpresse Mon 04-Jul-16 10:46:22

I think he's suggesting that a general election is needed for an effective, democratic mandate in how we exit the EU. I would agree with that 100% (and he isn't the leader of an anti-BREXIT party. Keep up!). Cameron has resigned. Boris is out of the leadership race (what caused this mess…). Labour is all over the place. Farage?! They need to sort themselves out. Set an election date for late autumn but not trigger Article 50 in this omnishambles.

A4Document Mon 04-Jul-16 12:06:38

ex-leader grin


LoloKazoloh Mon 04-Jul-16 12:14:03

I agree that the most democratic way forward would be to call an election in October and for all the parties to regroup/rearrange themselves for this new political reality and put their plans to the electorate.

I would favour a Labour split before then, a regroup, and an honest and open attempt to build a broad progressive confidence and supply (issue by issue) coalition govt of the two Labours, SNP, LD, Greens, etc. The SNP probably cannot go into coalition with Labour as it is now constituted but a split could detoxify that for them in Scotland. I accept this is probably a utopian fantasy wink.

citroenpresse Mon 04-Jul-16 12:22:16

A GE is definitely preferable to a) triggering article 50 straight away or b) a legal challenge to NOT triggering it. We need a v. different sort of politics but most of all, end to Tories!

LoloKazoloh Mon 04-Jul-16 12:31:06

I do not think the Labour Party as it is now can win an outright majority of English seats, Corbyn or no Corbyn. But it could be an end to the Tories and begin again as a governing party if it bites the bullet and moves quickly.

citroenpresse Mon 04-Jul-16 12:41:13

Totally agree about Labour. Needs to be some kind of progressive multiparty agreement based on a coalition (issue by issue) and constituency targets etc. Westminster, and the two main parties are destroying the country. We need new politics.

Mistigri Mon 04-Jul-16 12:45:29

If there is a GE first, this may simply be by default. There will be a GE in 2020 come what may. I wonder what the odds are on A50 being triggered before then?

citroenpresse Mon 04-Jul-16 12:51:47

Sadly, that's why a lot of people may have voted for Corbyn - but he's not a leader. That he doesn't want to step down because it is a betrayal of those who voted for him is honourable, and I'm sure goes deeper than the Boris/Gove/Cameron/Farago twatfest. He won an ENORMOUS popular mandate. That must be respected, just like remainers should deal with leaving the EU. I don't want to leave at all, but if we have to, I absolutely don't want UKIP or the Tories in charge of the negotiations…

citroenpresse Mon 04-Jul-16 12:56:55

If Article 50 is triggered before a general election, we will be out of the EU by 2020!

purits Mon 04-Jul-16 12:57:38

Nick who?

He went into a coalition with others outside his party and got mightily shafted. I wouldn't take instructions on how to negotiate from him.

citroenpresse Mon 04-Jul-16 13:03:36

Let's see. Cameron, without LibDem support and LibDem ministers, has managed to create chaos and destruction in barely a year on his own. The LibDems went into the Conservative coalition to put a break on more extreme Tory policies. They were doing it for the country. I think a lot of people are waking up to that now.

LoloKazoloh Mon 04-Jul-16 13:07:05

The LibDems can potentially attract the Conservative Remain voters so I wouldn't count them out just yet.

lalalonglegs Mon 04-Jul-16 13:25:51

The Guardian also reports that there might be a legal challenge funded by an anonymous group of business owners if any leader attempts to trigger Article 50 without a general election - report here.

Bumpsadaisie Mon 04-Jul-16 13:29:47

Hi Lalalonglegs

The Mischon de Reya argument is that it is unconstitutional for the govt to trigger Art 50 without Parliamentary approval - not that a new GE is needed. This parliament could approve (or not) the repeal/amendment of the European Communities Act 1972 without needing a new GE.

lalalonglegs Mon 04-Jul-16 13:44:20

My apologies, I read it yesterday and must have misremembered the content.

tiggytape Mon 04-Jul-16 13:53:17

The LibDems can potentially attract the Conservative Remain voters so I wouldn't count them out just yet.
If this rumbles on for months though, you'll also get some "reluctant remainers" (i.e. the ones who voted remain in the referendum because they dislike upheaval but who aren't necessarily wedded to the idea of staying in the EU) voting for whoever says they'll act fastest.

Uncertainty brings huge problems for business, trade, investment, travel and anyone who wants to plan anything more than a few months in advance. Any feeling of prolonging the agony and dragging this out for months, years or parliament after parliament after parliament is only going to be popular with real, hardcore remainers. And most people aren't hardcore anything - they just want stuff settled.

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