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For distraught remainers who want some hope

(39 Posts)
crossroads3 Sat 02-Jul-16 07:23:19

Prof Grayling (not to be confused with Chris Grayling) has had this unbelievably articulate letter hand delivered to all MPs. I urge everyone who cannot believe what is happening and how it is happening, to write to their MPs urging them to vote against Article 50 being triggered. The reasons are eloquently explained in the linked letter.

crossroads3 Sat 02-Jul-16 07:31:08

This article supports his view:

Imbroglio Sat 02-Jul-16 07:40:38

There's (another) petition here which asks govt not to invoke article 50.

This one isn't doing very well so there might be others?

crossroads3 Sat 02-Jul-16 07:43:48

I don't know. Have just signed this one and shared it on Facebook smile.

annandale Sat 02-Jul-16 07:49:18

I don't really think it is possible.

For the hundredth time I feel fury at DC for setting up an in/out option instead of splitting the options.

crossroads3 Sat 02-Jul-16 07:52:26

I am furious with him too and think he has got off too lightly. All the fury at Johnson ( who deserves it) but Cameron still smarming up to his chums on the front benches.

Imbroglio Sat 02-Jul-16 07:57:33

Tragically I think that even if parliament chooses not to invoke and to stay in Europe a lot of irreversible damage has already been done.

I am stunned that there hasn't even been a debate about this yes.

Maybe all this falling out over who gets to be team captain in both parties is really everyone playing for time while the powers that be come up with a cunning plan. Just hope it doesn't involve Tony Blair.

cingolimama Sat 02-Jul-16 08:02:24

Annandale - it may not be possible, and I understand completely the hopelessness that the vote has triggered. However, I do think we must at least TRY to do whatever we can to stop the irrevocable and extremely damaging leaving of the EU.

LowSugar Sat 02-Jul-16 08:26:31

Brilliant letter from Grayling I completely agree. Thanks- Will mention in my letter to my MP.

Janecc Sat 02-Jul-16 12:18:09

Thanks fantastic info. Good basis for writing to MP.

GhostofFrankGrimes Sat 02-Jul-16 12:23:21

On the plus side Cameron will be seen as the man who destroyed Britain. The next PM is drinking from a poisoned chalice - they will not be able to deliver any of the "promises".

Having said this I am still livid - the more I read on MN from leave voters the more I feel I have underestimated the naivety of the electorate.

OneArt Sat 02-Jul-16 12:24:02

I wrote to my MP this morning. Have just signed the petition above too.

Tomtomato Sat 02-Jul-16 12:35:34

This is a great letter which articulates what we've lost, written by Richard Bronk, a Visiting Fellow at the European Institute of the London School of Economics, to two Conservative MPs.

Unescorted Sat 02-Jul-16 12:46:06

Ghost the ignorance is quite staggering. I am all up for grassroots democracy, but before we rush into it I would like to see a compulsary test for all UK voters on international geopolitics and legislative structures. Otherwise we may as well flip a coin, which quite possibly some people did.

Sorry a small rant alert....

"we want our democracy back".... so you vote to leave a system with elected MEPs and elected heads of state electing a president to go to a system with an unelected head of state, unelected second chamber and a 1st chamber that is elected by a system that has more to do with the lines drawn on a map than people making an informed voting choice.

"We will have market access and be able to restrict who comes to our country" - well no. The EU has made very clear if we want a trade deal we have to accept free movement of its people.

"we can negotiate independent trade deals with other markets" - we could but now we are heading to an exit we aren't such an attractive proposition. In the EU we were the least restrictive in our trading environment which made us a very good base to access the EU market from. Outside the EU we are a small island with limited natural resources. The likes of Australia can negotiate trade deals because they have huge natural reserves. I can't see large trading nations beating a path to our door to make deals. Even the US with its special relationship has been luke warm.

GraceGrape Sat 02-Jul-16 12:51:33

This is an absolutely well-reasoned letter. Unfortunately, it points out all the things the Government should have thought about before the referendum. It should have been clearly pointed out that a referendum on a major decision would require a significant majority.

I fear this is a lesson learned too late for our government and our country. We use referendums so rarely that the country (and it seems, the government!) do not understand how they should properly be used.

I think the best way forward is to use all the arguments that Professor Grayling has put forward to lobby the government to negotiate a very close future relationship with the EU. Sadly, all I seem to hear from the Conservative party at the moment is a lot of lip-service to anti-immigration rhetoric, presumably in an effort to keep all the voters they fear may switch from Tory to UKIP. I cannot believe that such a significant decision for our future could well be decided to appease this element of our country! The majority for the referendum was a tiny 2%. A great many of those who voted leave will not have done so for anti-immigration reasons and would still be in favour of a membership of the EEA with free movement of people.

Mistigri Sat 02-Jul-16 13:12:03

This is an interesting read:

annandale Sat 02-Jul-16 13:35:49

I just think it is too late for this. The risk of totally disaffecting half the population is too great. Remainers can't say we didn't know what the deal was. One of the few silver linings of this week's clouds is that the conspiracy theories of last week about how the vote would be rigged have vanished and been proven to be nonsense. Huge though the loss of our Eu membership and 70% of the economy will be, the total alienation of leave voters would IMO be worse. That should be the message of the week - be bloody careful because you don't know what you have until it's gone. We may think people are alienated now but it could be much, much worse.

GraceGrape Sat 02-Jul-16 13:37:18

Misti thanks for the link. A quote from that article:

One of the central problems with a referendum is that it offers a binary choice, on this occasion In or Out. Within the ‘Out’ camp there were at least two strands. One group wished to regain UK sovereignty, but would wish to retain full access to European markets through the European Economic Area or some other arrangement. For this group, achieving that would mean keeping free movement of persons. The MEP Daniel Hannan would favour that option as it now seems would Boris Johnson MP. For others, regaining control over immigration, but at the cost of losing free access to the European market, was the goal. The Ukip MEP Nigel Farage favoured this option, as we now learn does Michael Gove MP.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. My fear is that the Farage/Gove camp will end up dominating the agenda, which cannot reflect a majority of the electorate.

whydidhesaythat Sat 02-Jul-16 14:07:13

I agree it is too late for fear of civil unrest
Sadly sad

BlunderWomansCat Sat 02-Jul-16 14:38:21

I'm not sure about civil unrest seeing as 69% of brexiters were over age 65.

OurBlanche Sat 02-Jul-16 14:54:21

Says who? All of that age, education stuff was via polls, which have been proven wrong so many times now. Remember the last election? All the polls, even the exit polls, were wrong then.

They are only used now by the likes of the DM, to stir its own special pot of shite! The only definite info we have is how many people in defined locations voted in/out.

whydidhesaythat Sat 02-Jul-16 15:15:50

Good point
Perhaps we all need to get more involved in our nearest"leave" town

BlunderWomansCat Sat 02-Jul-16 15:19:40

True, that was from the Torygraph hmm

RaptorInaPorkPieHat Sat 02-Jul-16 15:33:56

Thanks for the link smile I'm planning on writing to my MP but was struggling on how to phrase things, that letter gives me a good blue print.

I'm not expecting it to make a difference, but I can't give up the fight until they have actually triggered Article 50.

Itinerary Sat 02-Jul-16 16:03:28

The EU has made very clear if we want a trade deal we have to accept free movement of its people.

It may not turn out this way. Starting points for negotiating aren't necessarily the same as end points.

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