Even the stuff about fish was bullshit

[BeakyMinder]

Yet another Brexit myth to be debunked. Brexit will not allow us to "take back our fish".

theconversation.com/does-brexit-mean-plain-sailing-for-uk-fishermen-or-stormy-waters-61784

Sorry, know this is boring but I argued for ages about sodding fish with one of those fanatical Brexiters who has now oddly disappeared from MN. And this issue also turns out to be crap, just like the extra £350m for the NHS.

[A4Document]

So if the EU isn't responsible for the decline of the fishing industry in the UK, why do fishing communities point to joining the EU as when it all went wrong?

WTB I'm not sure people have necessarily disappeared, they might just have namechanged for the contentious EU discussions

[BeakyMinder]

Because that was when quotas on catches were imposed to stop the collapse of fishing stocks (as had just happened in Canada)?

[SonicSpotlight]

The quotas were set to prevent overfishing and ensure we still have something to fish. There are international agreements involved, not just EU ones. What happens to the quotas isn't the EU's doing. Our government doles them out.

energydesk.greenpeace.org/2016/05/15/investigation-big-fish-quota-barons-squeeze-out-small-scale-fishermen/

www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

[BeakyMinder]

Exactly Sonic!

[DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease]

The leave campaign told an untruth? Oh!

I didn't know much about the fishing boundaries and rules before the ref, and so it barely factored into my vote decision. Yet another reason I'm unsure that we should have been asked- how many of us, on either side, could genuinely weigh up all of the issues with a fully informed opinion on everything, we're just not expert enough on evening that is important? Even if we're well informed in certain areas, when our lives don't revolve around this stuff, is a few weeks enough to enable everyone to research themselves and become experts? If not, how were we supposed to decide?

And if we couldn't trust the bitesize information in our media to help shortcut through what could be years of research, where should we have got our information?

The whole referendum was unfair, I've formed the opinion that we should not have been asked.

[Mistigri]

The fish thing was bizarre, because it was both so completely irrelevant to most voters, and so easily debunked by anyone who cared enough to look up the facts (most people don't know or care about fishing, so hardly anyone could be bothered.

one of those fanatical Brexiters who has now oddly disappeared from MN.

Got their P45 and a thank you note from Dominic Cummings on Friday ;)

[Mistigri]

Or should that be P60? Been away too long. Anyway, you know what I mean.

[BeakyMinder]

Yes Misti but they stole our fish! Gaahhhh!

[Chris1234567890]

Im sorry. Would someone like to explain that article for me? A quick synopsis?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Whether or not the fish thing was rubbish, what was always completely absent was any clue whatsoever as to how things might improve for fishermen as a consequence of a brexit vote.

Even that ludicrous 'brexit - the movie', with its film of the tiny catch in the middle of the big hall, juxtaposed with enormous catches from about 50 years ago, which did the rounds repeatedly on these threads, offered not one tiny clue about how brexit would result in the resurrection of britain's fishing industry.

Everyone with a brain would surely have been shouting 'Giant Con Alert' at the screen, but still people lapped it up. Nothing like a bit of soft focus nostalgia. That's the problem with referenda.

I tell you one thing that really puzzles me. Why, given the entirely predictable (and predicted!) omni shambles that is now developing, why aren't mps calling for the resignations of gove, Andrea L, grayling and the other prominent sellers of the brexit dream?

Perversely, it seems that far from being punished, at least the Tory ones are going to be rewarded with promotions and MORE RESPONSIBILITY (hello...) for crashing the economy. It's a bit like being in a bad play. I'm not surprised Dobbs is saying you couldn't make it up.

[GirlOutNumbered]

This one really gets my goat!! OUR government sold off some of our fishing quota!!!!

[BeakyMinder]

Dominic Cummings. What a cunt. Did you see the video of him at the parliamentary hearing? I can't believe these people are running the country.

[SonicSpotlight]

Basically, the Greenpeace article explains what is happening to our fishing quota.

The U.K. Government is given the quota of how much of each type of fish can be caught in each bit of our coastal waters. It has the job of divvying up those rights to boats so FishyMcFishFace owned by Captain Birdseye has the right to catch 400 kilos of herring (very made up.)

When Greenpeace traced back the paperwork on the boats they found that

3 huge companies hold 61% of fishing rights in England which obviously squeezes out small scale fishermen.
44% of England and Wales' fish is owned by foreign companies who then land the catches overseas bringing no knock on benefit to local UK economies.
Some fishermen are hoarding fishing rights they never intend to use themselves. They apply for and get the right to fish for amounts they could never physically catch in the boats the rights are assigned to. They then 'license' the rights to other boats (sell them at a price they get to set) rather like ticket touts.

The U.K. Government has the right to distribut the quota on 'social, economic and environmental criteria' by European regulations. It's our government that chooses to sell them to whoever pays the most. It's our government that gives Cornish fishing rights to companies based in the North East and the Netherlands. It's our government that allows people to deliberately hoard allowances and sell them on for profit, squeezing out small scale fishermen.

[Spinflight]

If beaky lost the initial argument then getting to justify it now doesn't sound very healthy.

Let it go, I doubt anyone would spend any time educating you just because you are bitter at losing the referendum...

[SonicSpotlight]

It doesn't matter if she bathes in Deuchars IPA, facts don't cease to be facts based on which way a vote goes. If anyone actually wants changes to fishing it is and has always been our government who hand out fishing rights.

[Chris1234567890]

Spin Thank you for taking the time to summarise.......... think Ill pass on this one

[Sciurus83]

I know about fish! I work in conservation, much of it marine and everything explained above is true. The UK government are responsible for deciding who gets fishing contracts, not the EU. The legislation that I work with every single day is how to manage our fisheries sustainably. The end of the fishing industry in this country was because it was fished almost to extinction, the EU regulations on tackle and fishing type were brought in to rescue our fragile marine environments which had been trawled within an inch of existence and are important nursery areas for fish stocks. We work very hard to take into account local livelihoods and set quotas in areas that are safe to fish without compromising the long term status of stocks, preserving habitats and ensuring there is enough set aside to support the valuable ecosystems such as migratory birds which rely on our protected areas as essential overwintering grounds. The EU provided strong powers to do this, it provided bullet proof protection for our seas and I am very concerned for the future without it given the bizarre impression that has been portrayed in the press that the only reason we couldn't carry on like we did in the 50s is because of regulation. The regulations are there for sound scientific reasons, they are well reasoned and robust and we must retain them for the health of our seas and all who hope to make their living off them.

[Mistigri]

sciurus you've misread the popular mood, people aren't interested to talking to anyone who knows what they are talking about ;)

[BeakyMinder]

Michael Gove's dad was a fish processor who nursed a life long grievance against the EU. How interesting that MN's chief Brexit spinner should be so passionate about fish processing. How's the leadership contest going Spin?

[DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease]

Yeah Misti who wants to listen to experts?

[smallfox1980]

Michael Gove's father in another interview also highlighted the loss of the 2nd Cod war as an issue.

The thing I never got was when Brexiteers talked about reclaiming the waters that we used to fish that the EU has given away. The EU set fishing boundaries so other countries weren't fishing in each others waters to the deteriment of each others fishing industries.

Can really see the Danes et al letting British fishermen into their waters without a fight.

[PausingFlatly]

Well now, Spinflight, that's a very interesting post of yours on this thread.

Because you were the poster churning out astroturf on one of the fishing threads, repeating over and over and over your fantasies about glory days for poor little fisher folk once freed from the tyrannical yoke of Brussels.

You did not win any argument. Simply repeated your fantasies over and over. It was rather like talking to a political operative who'd had media training.

[PausingFlatly]

So iMAGine my surprise you're trying to kill off discussion about, er, your fantasies being fantasy.

[Sciurus83]

I know sob

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Spin flight - sure - let's just burn all the books while we're at it.

I'm sorry everyone else on this thread, but the anti-intellectualism and closing down of rational voices in this whole affair has got me down perhaps more than anything else. I am a moderate person - but maybe because again I've woken up with a racing heart beat at 5 am, it really is starting to feel like fascism to me. A fundamental and deeply unpleasant shift.