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Regardless of the outcome of the EUref and your position on it - Do you think Cameron was right to even call a referendum in the first place?

(124 Posts)
AdrenalineFudge Fri 01-Jul-16 13:20:31

Just curious? I think he could have still won the election without calling a referendum on the EU. The whole issue of 'shy' tories coming out in force to elect the Conservatives as the major governing party.

That said, it was the first time a new generation would be able to decide on their future in the EU - make what you will of exit polls in that most people who will have to deal with the consequences voted to remain but do you think that the referendum was needed in the first place?

ExitPursuedByBear Fri 01-Jul-16 13:21:38

There is a special topic for all this stuff.

AdrenalineFudge Fri 01-Jul-16 13:23:10

Ok. I'll report to get it moved. I'd rather focus on evil MILs and parking than a decision that will impact us all drastically.

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams Fri 01-Jul-16 13:24:11

No - it's the type of decision the politicians should make. There should be opinion polls and it be in their manifesto obviously, but it shouldn't have been put to the public in a yes/no format.

The only reason for having it as a referendum is that if things were to go wrong (whichever the result had been) is so they could say "well, you chose it".

HopperBusTicket Fri 01-Jul-16 13:25:43

I think he was wrong to call it. But I voted Remain. I think you'll find there's a strong correlation between the way people voted and whether they think we should have had a vote in the first place.

t4gnut Fri 01-Jul-16 13:26:29

In short , no he wasn't.

Idealistically we elect MPs on the grounds that they have the intellectual capacity and skillsets to lead - to make complex decisions that the populace as a whole cannot.

In this scenario a party political led agenda placed a referendum in front of a populace that for a large number where unable to grasp what it was they were being asked to decide. Now this was exacerbated by the Leave campaigns subsequent admission hat they lied about pretty much everything.

Now what we have is an unreliable opinion poll referendum that has to get through the commons as a bill, is open to legal challenge and judicial review, subject to being held to ransom by the Scotts and in all likelihood will have to survive a general election.

No it should never have happened. He was wrong to call one.

Binkybix Fri 01-Jul-16 13:29:05

It's a difficult one because when do you call the referendum? A few years later and the odds are it would have been to stay in because of demographic shift.

I'm on the fence as to whether we should have a referendum at all, but I am certain that we should not have had ones for the reasons we did - ie to bolster DC's support.

peachpudding Fri 01-Jul-16 13:30:52

Of course he was, the country deserved a chance to have a say. And the country voted to have a referendum!

Gwenci Fri 01-Jul-16 13:31:20

No. I'm disgusted that such an important issue was ever put to a referendum.

It was a simultaneously vicious yet vacuous campaign full of lies, exaggerations and politicians pushing their own self serving agendas on both sides. Yet ordinary people were supposed to rely on this 'information' to make the most critical political, economic and moral decision of our lifetime? Sickening.

Mcchickenbb41 Fri 01-Jul-16 13:34:03

Just had this conversation with my mum this morning. Iv steered away from commenting on anything political on here but I wish we'd never had the referendum. There will be so many people that disagree with me and I respect that. I can't understand how we were trusted with such an important world changing decision. But we were so now looking back I think there should have been a more active group in the campaign that were completely in the middle and just gave unbiased pure facts. All we really heard were people that were in or out based on why they believed we should be.

Binkybix Fri 01-Jul-16 13:34:06

And the country voted to have a referendum!

See, this I don't buy. There are so many things in each manifesto that I don't think we can say this.

Mcchickenbb41 Fri 01-Jul-16 13:34:40

Agree with gwenchi

SwearyGodmother Fri 01-Jul-16 13:35:17

Absolutely not. It was a total abrogation of MP's responsibility to put this to the public in such a simplistic way.

We elect MPs to make the difficult decisions on our behalf. Decisions that suit the country as a whole. The people voting in this referendum seemed to vote only for themselves and without understanding much of what they were voting about. I am furious with Cameron for putting this on us and washing his hands of the outcome. I'm a lifelong Tory and will never vote for the party who put career advancement and self before national interest again.

whois Fri 01-Jul-16 13:35:19

No - it is far too complicated an issue, with far reaching concequences to be decided upon by the public. The elected government should have debated and voted.

You shouldn't put a decision like this that has concquences for future generations in the hands of peopel who think 'i'll vote leave cos i'l lget loads of work (contract lawyer)' for example.

Arfarfanarf Fri 01-Jul-16 13:36:30

No, I don't.

gastropod Fri 01-Jul-16 13:40:36

I think he was totally wrong. It was done for all the wrong reasons (mostly party politics and vote chasing). It was hasty. And it was foolish.

That does not mean that the UK's EU membership should not have been addressed. Or even revoked.

But not like this.

pigsDOfly Fri 01-Jul-16 13:47:01

No. We elect our representatives to sit in Parliament and make these decisions for us and hope to god they get it right, which obviously they often don't; it's not an exact science unfortunately.

If the politicians don't have enough political or economic knowledge to make those decisions on our behalf what makes anyone think the average voter is going be able to do any better? You only had to listen to some of the stupid remarks people came out with after the referendum result was broadcast to see that some people are not to be trusted with making decisions about what to have for breakfast, let alone decisions that affect the economic and political future of a whole nation.

ReallyTired Fri 01-Jul-16 13:47:25

I am glad that every adult over the age of 18 was given the opportunity to vote. The fact that leaving the EU is life changing is all the more reason to have a referendum.

The remainers don't like the result, but that doesn't mean it's unfair. The like chavs working class have spoken. We must respect the will of the people. Democracy is not just for those who are rich or have degrees. Yes, Britain's under class have the right to make decision that the ruling class disagree with.

peachpudding Fri 01-Jul-16 13:49:13

Sounds like just another moan from the losing remainers.

DixieNormas Fri 01-Jul-16 13:49:34

No, I don't think the majority of people know enough about it to be making the choice. Some people didn't seem to know anything!

That's what the government are for imo

ReallyTired Fri 01-Jul-16 13:52:33

The some remainers want sixteen and seventeen year olds to be allowed to vote, yet the want to exclude the 55 unemployed ex steel worker from Wales or those over 65. You cannot cherry pick the electorate in a democracy.

You win some, you lose some. Get over it!

AlecTrevelyan006 Fri 01-Jul-16 13:54:05

Cameron only included a promise to hold an EU Referendum to place UKIP, who at the time didn't even have one MP.

The man's an idiot and we're all going to pay a heavy price.

Alconleigh Fri 01-Jul-16 14:23:16

No, it was utterly wrong and irresponsible. This is the greatest disaster that has struck this country in my lifetime, and it was entirely avoidable. I am so, so angry.

RosesareSublime Fri 01-Jul-16 14:30:33

When you say the leave campaign was based on lies, apart from the dubious 350 Mill figure can you explain what it is about the EU that has been lied about?

NO one seemed to be able to find a good thing to say about it. Every claim, refuted and counter claimed.

Thats why they called remain, project fear, there was no good news about the EU.

Op Yes Cameron was 100% right to give the people what they wanted. The voters came out in numbers not seen for a very long time. People wanted it.
I am very sorry remain lost, and If leave had lost I would be feeling miserable too. But you would have seen an enveloping of apathy and hopelessness descend on half the nation.

You may be sore remain lost but you can still make this country what you want.
Under the EU all hope for reform is quelled and lost. It would have been utterly hopeless. All this shite about " stay in and fight". There was no chance, look at what they gave Cameron in terms of concessions when his back was to the NOTHING.

Pettywoman Fri 01-Jul-16 14:33:42

I didn't see the need for a referendum. I'm angry that once it was called, the campaign was short with very poor information available and no clear plan to follow on Brexit. It was a stitch up of lies and soundbites.

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