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"Angela Merkel sees no chance of British U-turn on Brexit"

(20 Posts)
crossroads3 Wed 29-Jun-16 19:17:50

So is that it then - can the rest of the EU do this despite the fact that Article 50 has not been invoked and it looks like no one really wants to?

I realise that they can't allow the instability to carry on, but legally the UK will be an EU member until Article 50 is detonated or whatever the expression is? It's not actually up to the other countries??

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 29-Jun-16 19:25:08

Yup, the EU cannot kick the UK out, and the UK has not left until it invokes article 50. However,ignorimg the referendum result would be political suicide, and I'm sure the EU could make it very uncomfortable for us, on the other hand the referendum result was political suicide too, and we seem to be oretty thick skinned when it comes to what the EU thinks of us...

crossroads3 Wed 29-Jun-16 19:32:55

So why is Merkel making these factless kinds of statements sad?

Beginning to feel hopeless now. Because of Merkel confused.

SeasonalVag Wed 29-Jun-16 19:37:00

it's all to punish us. there will be a deal. but they are playing hard. thet have to. we will end up being gratefu to be allowed any concessioon.

dont forget that if we leave, the whole eu "project" will be in jeopardy. its in their interests to strike a deal.

SnowBells Wed 29-Jun-16 19:37:54

She's saying that because the apparent indecision by the UK (we don't even have leaders anymore) creates a jittery time for the EU.

Basically, it's akin to your husband telling you he wants a divorce, before deciding he wants to continue living in the same house as you for the time being. He hasn't signed the divorce papers either. It makes it difficult to really continue your life.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 29-Jun-16 19:38:03

Because whilst they cannot kick the UK out, in the real world they are out already. DC is being excluded from talks, various UK EU folk have resigned already.

The UK maintaining this limbo situation is good for no-one , hence why the EU won't begin negotiations until we invoke article 50 - this needs to be done quickly, and all of the planning needed should have been done before the referendum to facilitate this.

GoodStuffAnnie Wed 29-Jun-16 19:42:47

Maybe she's saying it because she believes in democracy.

And if we ignore democracy we peel back years and years of progress.

SnowBells Wed 29-Jun-16 19:53:36

Guys, just watch this. He's very frank (it is 'Hardtalk' after all) about how Europe views the UK right now. It's 30 minutes long, but very informative. Radek Sikorski is the former Polish foreign minister and knows BoJo from Oxford.

Hardtalk interview with Radek Sikorski

SnowBells Wed 29-Jun-16 20:00:51


I said this before, I'll say this again. If you think "Democracy" is all about holding the results of a glorified opinion poll as something holy, thing again.

By your definition, America would still have slavery now, if it had all boiled down to ONE referendum of keeping slaves or not.

Because I'm pretty sure the first one would have been a 'keeper'.

ManonLescaut Wed 29-Jun-16 20:00:58

We could do a U-turn, she can't actually kick us out. The referendum isn't legally binding and it hasn't been ratified by our Parliament. I think she'd have a massive legal battle if we said we're staying. It's not as if there's a precedent for this.

She's signalling clearly that we can't drag it out as long as we like while we decide the terms - or rather quickly make up policies - because it's creating massive instability.

If only Labour were in good shape and could form an alliance with the LibDems & Scotland and oppose leave democratically, I think that would be the only shot.

DiggersRest Wed 29-Jun-16 20:02:06


GoodStuffAnnie Wed 29-Jun-16 20:15:23

Did America have a referenda about slavery? I didn't know that.

It's not a glorified opinion poll it's a vote. We HAVE to uphold it otherwise we have nothing.

SnowBells Wed 29-Jun-16 20:22:33


It's an opinion poll. It's not legally binding. Several referendums elsewhere have been ignored.

About slavery - the confederate states wanted to secede because they wanted to keep slavery and 'take back control'. Well - you no longer have the confederate states these days, do you. It's now the United States of America.

RainYourRottingMyDhaliaBulbs Wed 29-Jun-16 20:32:58

Interesting snowbells, I think the guy is taking this personally as well which colours his view.

at the end of day its going to come down to money isn't it, he says the EU will be hard pushed to give us a deal better than Norway when our economy is FIVE TIMES bigger than Norway.

who needs our money? what do we need?

Its a house of cards, do they want to push it by being hard or do they want too give us a deal that matches our weight? Tricky.

RainYourRottingMyDhaliaBulbs Wed 29-Jun-16 20:35:11

Oh lord.

Bringing slavery into it now. If anyone is the slaves here its the poor of the EU working for a higher goal of the winners of the union which ain't the common man.

Your framing that in a really strange way.

tiggytape Wed 29-Jun-16 20:46:37

If only Labour were in good shape and could form an alliance with the LibDems & Scotland and oppose leave democratically, I think that would be the only shot.
Even all of them together don't have a majority in the house of Commons and, anyway, Labour have already said they will abide by the vote - as will the Conservatives. There's no definite General Election before 2020 or before Article 50 is invoked. It is possible that the next Tory leader may choose to have one to firm things up but if it looked like it would lead to a messy hung parliament, may decide that wouldn't help anyway.

The legal position is that nothing has changed but, in reality, we are half way out already. In the EU they are angry with us (and they probably have a point) and crucially they are moving on without us in a very real sense. They met today without us. It was the first time like that where Britain hadn't been represented at an important meeting. They will have another important meeting in September where we will also not be allowed to attend.
Our EU Commissioner, who spoke for our interests, is gone. We have no real voice left. The rest of the EU already call themselves "the 27 nations" although technically with us it would be 28
They have closed ranks. We said we're going and, as far as they're concerned, the sooner the better.

So when Angela Merkel says there is no way to reverse the UK’s decision to vote for Brexit and calls it “wishful thinking” to suggest there is anyway Britain can stay in the EU - she means we have burnt our bridges and there's no way back in the minds of the others. Legally we could stay and try to gate crash their meetings and insist "we've not technically gone yet. Don't forget us, we are number 28" - but in reality it is too late.

SnowBells Wed 29-Jun-16 20:47:36


I gave you an example - what would happen if we just listen to the minor majority ONCE, and then shut up, never to talk about the topic again. Likely, slavery would still be there.

Who allows zero hour contracts? Who wants you to give your life for your employer? It's the UK government. Not the EU.

The European Commission actually reprimanded the UK over zero hour contracts. This is what they said:

"It is important that people on zero-hours contracts do not become trapped in a succession of short-term, low quality jobs with inadequate social protection. The UK has an obligation to ensure compliance with the working conditions standards set by EU labour law, including paid annual leave proportionate to time worked and respect for the Working Time Directive."

If you want to make a case for the poor of Britain, you're backing the wrong side.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 29-Jun-16 20:55:39

Snowbells thanks for the interview link. It is very sobering viewing.

SnowBells Wed 29-Jun-16 21:03:04


our economy is FIVE TIMES bigger than Norway

Read the casualties thread. Our economy will weaken at a fast rate.

Stilllovingmysleep Wed 29-Jun-16 21:32:06

'Our economy' is not a static thing! Watch this space: soon you might be rid of all the migrants you so dread because they tend to go where there is a strong economy. I am an EU immigrant (living in the uk for a very long time) from one of the countries that has suffered hugely through the financial crisis and I don't wish it anyone, not to my worst enemy.

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