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Will there be a general election soon?

(35 Posts)
Lottielo Tue 28-Jun-16 12:11:47

Is it likely that we will have another general election in the near future? Could one of the parties stand for remain and overturn ignore the referendum decision? If Art 50 has been invoked by that time, can it be reversed or is there no going back? Which party would be likely to stand for remain, the Conservatives and Labour are so divided at the moment, it is hard to know what they stand for.

YourPerception Tue 28-Jun-16 12:16:27

Yes. I thought there would be about six months ago. It seems many though that was a daft idea at the time. confused What do I know I am not a graduate. I am too think to work these things out for myself. I can't research and I am easily fooled so my post and opinion are worthless like my leave vote.

tiggytape Tue 28-Jun-16 12:17:03

In order:
1. Maybe but only of the Tories want one. Only they have the power to call it before 2020
2. Highly unlikely - both main parties have agreed to abide by the vote.
3. No It is irreversible
4. Green? The Lib Dems? Plaid and The SNP? (unless they are well on the road to realising Brexit is their only justification for another Independence Referendum by the time it is called)

YourPerception Tue 28-Jun-16 12:17:54

Lib Dem and SNP are trying to make it about remain. I suspect Tory and Labour will ignore leave/remain.

OhYouBadBadKitten Tue 28-Jun-16 12:20:15

If a vote of no confidence were created that would create another mechanism for a general election.

LurkingHusband Tue 28-Jun-16 12:20:58

Personally, I can't see how parliament can continue as it is. The reality of the UK leaving the EU was never put to the electorate, so it would be profoundly undemocratic for the current government to continue the Brexit negotiations without a complete mandate from the people.

I'm surprised that more Brexiters aren't pointing this out - they seemed such big fans of democracy.

The problem is that no-one in parliament really wants that (and the rest of the country can go fuck themselves when it's like that).

The second problem is however a new parliament is made up, we are going to have a situation where we know 16,000,000 views are being ignored.

The proper thing to have done, was for Cameron to have resigned immediately, and found a way (Fixed Term Parliaments Act notwithstanding) to have called for a General Election so that the new parliament has the full confidence and mandate to negotiate Brexit.

But democracy appears to be that rare beast - an irregular noun.

Perhaps part of the older generations support for Brexit was a form of displaced nostalgia. Maybe they miss 3 general elections a year ?

OhYouBadBadKitten Tue 28-Jun-16 12:22:22

motion no confidence

tiggytape Tue 28-Jun-16 12:22:30

Yes a vote of no confidence cannot pass without the Tories voting for it. They still hold the majority of the seats in the House of Commons.
It is the likely mechanism they would use if they choose to trigger one though. The other mechanism is that two thirds of all MPs say they want an election. Again - that needs Tory support.

tiggytape Tue 28-Jun-16 12:26:37

Personally, I can't see how parliament can continue as it is. The reality of the UK leaving the EU was never put to the electorate, so it would be profoundly undemocratic for the current government to continue the Brexit negotiations without a complete mandate from the people.
Depends how they spin it. Not many PMs can say "I have a mandate to act given to me by 17 million people"

LurkingHusband Tue 28-Jun-16 12:26:46

Yes a vote of no confidence cannot pass without the Tories voting for it. They still hold the majority of the seats in the House of Commons.

just

Lottielo Tue 28-Jun-16 12:29:08

I'm not convinced that 16 million people will support Brexit on the terms that now look likely to be agreed i.e. free movement of people continues.

Lottielo Tue 28-Jun-16 12:29:55

Sorry...17 million

LurkingHusband Tue 28-Jun-16 12:30:00

Not many PMs can say "I have a mandate to act given to me by 17 million people"

It's the same number that can say "I don't speak for half the electorate."

We are in uncharted waters. Maybe the last time the UK was so divided amongst the people was possibly the Reformation.

The fact some people will need to look up "The Reformation" speaks volumes about where we are sad.

YourPerception Tue 28-Jun-16 12:31:54

I am sure had the remain voters won there would be disgruntled remainers after. Both sides lied.

Lottielo Tue 28-Jun-16 12:37:52

Exactly YourPerception, both sides lied and we didn't really know what we were signing up to either way. Now that a clearer picture is beginning to emerge, I'm wondering how many people would change their vote.

YourPerception Tue 28-Jun-16 12:43:02

Those in the grieving process may require the picking of bones to help them reach acceptance. In the mean time there is a need to deal with the result and be productive.

LurkingHusband Tue 28-Jun-16 13:12:53

Those in the grieving process may require the picking of bones to help them reach acceptance. In the mean time there is a need to deal with the result and be productive.

The problem is that you can't square a circle. The events of the past few months have rent a void in UK society that will last beyond the memories of our great-grandchildren. Don't forget we live in a society where some people still refer to Campbells as traitors. When exactly was Culloden ? (And to underscore the ridiculousness of it all, that's founded on a myth to start with).

YourPerception Tue 28-Jun-16 13:18:09

That's a society issue and individuals need to deal with their stuff.

LurkingHusband Tue 28-Jun-16 13:24:33

That's a society issue and individuals need to deal with their stuff.

Great. And in other news, all we need to do to solve world poverty is make more money.

Not only is it difficult to "get over" such a fundamental difference (how do Creationists and sane people manage ?) it has to be done against a backdrop of myriad vested interests in stoking the fires of discontent.

Mistigri Tue 28-Jun-16 13:28:26

Is it likely that we will have another general election in the near future?

Probably, although it has become harder to call or to force a mid term election than it used to be. I think the new PM will have to go to the country either via a GE or (God forbid) a new referendum in order to get support for whatever compromise they come up with.

Could one of the parties stand for remain and overturn ignore the referendum decision?

Yup, the referendum legislation wss deliberately worded to make the result purely advisory.

If Art 50 has been invoked by that time, can it be reversed or is there no going back?

Legal experts seem to think there is no going back, although of course no one has ever tested this in court.

Which party would be likely to stand for remain, the Conservatives and Labour are so divided at the moment, it is hard to know what they stand for.

The Lib Dems ;) The other two parties are two busy disappearing up their own backsides to be able to stand for anything right now. (I'm not a lib dem voter but so far this week they have been the -very - quiet voice of reason)

BreakingDad77 Tue 28-Jun-16 13:38:59

If Art 50 has been invoked by that time, can it be reversed or is there no going back?

Well they would let us reapply, after we left but we would lose the rebate and prob cost more.

Maybe with a lot of grovelling and maybe give up the rebate we could possibly ask them to cease the proceedings? EU gets to save face and walk away with more money. UK people will be furious though!

All the parties are imploding as they dont want to be the one that pull s the trigger.

What I worry about is that UKIP will get a massive boost as Boris continues to tout EEA with no change in freedom of movement.

Lottielo Tue 28-Jun-16 13:48:10

Surely, if we asked to halt the process once Art 50 had been triggered, the EU would be happy to accept this. It would send a good message to other nations that might be thinking of leaving. They could also insist that we adopt the Euro (there's a thread on here saying that today the EU told the remaining states without the Euro that they will have to adopt it).

Lottielo Tue 28-Jun-16 13:49:12

BreakingDad UKIP won't get a deal from the EU restricting freedom of movement, so what would they do?

BreakingDad77 Tue 28-Jun-16 13:55:23

Sorry lottie it was porrly written, what I mean was we have GE to decide who triggers article 50, with boris and possibly labour offering the free trade/movement path, people will be furious and go to UKIP who I get the impression wouldn't care, they would just put no through all the agreements with a very acrimonious break from EU. The vote gets diluted in general election so UKIP could sneak in possibly?

LurkingHusband Tue 28-Jun-16 13:55:34

Surely, if we asked to halt the process once Art 50 had been triggered, the EU would be happy to accept this

Surely the present situation is a clear demonstration that making decisions now predicated on what you think other people should do is naive to say the least ?

Exhibit A:

Brexit: The UK will be able to informally discuss trade deals before Article 50 is invoked

EU: Non

As we are discovering (and there's a lot more to follow) all the things the Brexiters told us about what everyone else would "have" to do are losing their wheels.

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