Corbyn still hanging in there(397 Posts)
I actually quite admire that. Hanging tough. I think it shows a sharp contrast to Cameron who can't get out of things soon enough.
Could Corbyn actually be the next PM?
People are saying Corbin was out of step with his electorate due to his very lackadaisical support of the Remain vote. However, with the Labour vote being the ones to carry the Brexit to victory, is the Labour party out of step and not Corbin?
It's an interesting question. He sat on the fence a bit, but perhaps that was the smartest thing to do.
I don't think that Ukip will come out well from this, a lot of people are very angry and upset at the anti-immigration stance. I think Ukip are going to get slaughtered. The Remainers hate Farage, a lot of the Brexiters hate him too as they are sick of being tarred with the same brush as him. The Conservative party could be blamed for the mess, Cameron called for the referendum and then ran when he didn't get the result he wanted. There's a lot of negativity toward Boris and Gove. Corbyn could say, hey I didn't really want this, didn't really not want this but it's what we've got so let's roll up our sleeves and get on with things. I think that would be a very smart stance to take. If he can withstand the pressure from the Labour party to quit. He's not really hated by Remainers, not really hated by Brexiters. At least that's what I think.
I hope he hangs on. He's made be far more hopeful about change and I seriously doubt whoever the MPs get to oppose him will be able to really be able to distance themselves from the establishment in the way he can. I think this is such an opportunity for Labour but fear they're going to squander it by putting blame on the outcome on Corbyn.
The Remainers hate Farage, a lot of the Brexiters hate him too as they are sick of being tarred with the same brush as him.
This is still taking a London-centric middle class view of the matter - the same disregard for the disaffected that got us to this point.
There a re lot of very angry people outside the metropolitan and affluent areas who will absolutely go for the UKIP message - just because 'people we know' can't relate to that does make it go away.
He's a stubborn little guy for someone with nothing to offer. If he's still in office on Friday I will eat my MacBook.
Maybe you're right MrsGuyOfGisbo, but UKIP got one seat at the last election and that was before the referendum. Now the referendum has taken place I struggle to see what they have to offer. I do understand that there are some hard-line right-wingers out there but I feel they are very much the minority. Maybe not, maybe they are. I hope they are though.
Yes, I'm just wondering if Corbyn's tenacity will inspire something in people. After the election, I felt a bit lost regarding him but if he can battle through this onslaught I couldn't help but respect that.
He is in an interesting position. Elected labour MPs can't stand him but he has a lot of public support (tho there's a bit of a swing against him post brexit). So he can cling on whilst they all resign and force a vote but would possibly be re-elected anyway if he stood. Which is a shame in my view as he is not up to the task and wouldn't have a hope of winning in a GE.
I think he has to go. He needs the support of the plp as well as the members and the former is mostly lacking. Him hanging on now is just humiliating IMO.
He is a nice person and a conscientious MP, but they need someone who has the charisma to fight and win a general election. We all need this IMO.
I find it really sad that we can't accommodate principled politicians. Corbyn was never accepted by some MPs and the media have constantly muffled his messages. Any electoral success (by-elections, mayoral elections London and Bristol) are overlooked but everyone ready to blame him if things go wrong. I do think he has something to offer and is able to move people. I actually thought his criticism of MPs yesterday was good - but too late. He's let it fester for so long and tried to achieve consensual politics when others were never going to go along with it.
think he has to go. He needs the support of the plp as well as the members and the former is mostly lacking. Him hanging on now is just humiliating IMO.
But this is the bit that winds me up. He is new, he hasn't had a chance, why are the rest of the MPs so out of step? Do they have someone of his ethos and with much more charisma and negotiation skills?
Or are they just going to stick one of the Blairites there and say fuck you common man.
What struck me yesterday was all his cabinet who resigned saying 'he is a good and principled man but won't make PM'. As though good and principled isn't necessarily a good thing in a PM.
It's the lack of goodness and principles that have got us where we are today. I hope he stands firm. He is the first political figure in a long time stand out from the crowd.
When it was Cameron, Clegg and Balls as the main 3 players many ordinary people would have struggled to tell you who was who and what they stood for. Corbyn might not be sharp suited and slick but he at least has principles which is sadly lacking.
I haven't seen much of him. But when he does speak I listen to what he has to say.
And the fact he is standing firm shows more backbone and grit than many of the others recently.
He has to go. He isn't send never has polled well.
At this point in time Labour should be well ahead as are most parties in opposition. He isn't.
If he stays Labour will be crushed in a GE.
Should say he isn't and hasn't ever polled well.
Good and principled are great qualities but that doesn't make an effective leader. Clearly by having 46 members resign it's clear that he doesn't have the leadership skills needed to manage an effective team. You can't be a leader and create a cohesive opposition if you are completely bloody minded which is what he appears to be. Leadership is bout bringing your team along with you, having some flexibility, allowing others a voice and building an atmosphere of mutual respect. He has failed on every level and he is making an utter fool of himself.
I'm sorry but when the vast majority of your colleagues say you aren't up to the job, apart from a couple of your cronies, you need to listen. The resigning group are not all 'Blairites' and should not all be dismissed as such. One guy this morning who resigned calls himself a 'comrade' of Corbin ffs, and still thinks Corbin has to go. This has gone beyond being 'principled'.
I want principled politicians.
I want people who think about what's right, not what is electable.
He's being damned for not being active enough in the campaign, Cameron's being damned for doing too much. There's no one blueprint for a leader.
The PLP is acting exactly like the Remainers who are seeking to unpick the vote. The Labour heartlands are solid Leave, and are also the people who were solid Corbyn. If the PLPmdump him, they do so at their peril.
I think there will be a new political party, which I will provisionally call 'white van', emerging from disaffected working class voters. Labour has has it, their just junior Tories (since Blair). And there is space for a new grassroots movement. What Labour used to be, and more of the practical left, not (unrepresentative) euroluvvie type.
The Labour heartlands are solid Leave, and are also the people who were solid Corbyn. If the PLPmdump him, they do so at their peril.
Many that voted for him originally won't again.
But has he had a chance to demonstrate his leadership qualities? And should his cabinet have resigned as they have in anticipation of a GE when the country was looking for some consistency? They lost the last GE when it was theirs for the taking with an indetikit figure at the helm.
And those that won't be led by a good and principled man, what does it say about them? My local mp was one of those that resigned yesterday and I am pretty pissed off to be honest. It comes down to democracy again. Someone has been elected by their party members to do a job. Why is it down to the shadow cabinet to decide they know best?
A lot of traditional labour voters have been looking for something different. I voted labour last time. But it wasn't because I particularly believed in Labour as it was. I just didn't want a conservative government. Lots of labour voters feel the same. That shouldn't be why we vote. We should be voting for who we believe in.
Many that voted for him originally won't again.
^ this (myself included)
Yes, if the grass roots party do not vote for him again, he will be out. But if they're in a mood not to be bullied by an elite they see as London-centric and unrepresentative, his vote might hold up.
And I think it's totally the right thing for him to stand again.
Whilst Corbyn has the support of the party grassroots (for now), the party needs to appeal to the wider electorate to win an election. Focussing on what the party membership thinks of JC is one big circle jerk. The PLP know it & left-leaning floating voters know it. Shame JC lacks that insight. They need to act quickly to be poised for a snap election, or else we could be looking at another 5 years of the Tories. Angela Eagle was bang on the money in her John Pienaar interview last night that the interests of disadvantaged communities are best served by a Labour party that can win.
I don't know what to make of this at all, I really don't. One part of me is applauding Corbyn for hanging in (primarily for the people who voted him in) and another part of me is saying "please find a way to unite as a credible opposition, leave with dignity and find someone you can all support".
Everyone seems to agree that Corbyn is a good and principled man and I want such people in power. On the other hand, a good and principled man who even his most ardent supporters are finding it hard to support may be proving too difficult to work with.
If the grassroots starts to slip away, I think he will step down, but what a shocking mess our government is in.
Corbyn relies on 600k Labour Party members as his mandate
The MP's represent between them millions of constituents the vast majority of whom will not be party members. They are the ones that are out on the doorsteps hearing views about their leader. They are the ones that need the votes which will get them re-elected in sufficient numbers to get into power.
Surely on the numbers you really can't rely on the "mandate" of the party members?
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