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Any other Remainers think this petition/another referendum is not the way forward?

(66 Posts)
Meggymoodle Mon 27-Jun-16 07:47:16

Apologies if a thread has already been started on this - feel free to ignore this one!

I was an ardent remainer. I spent Friday morning crying every time I thought about my children's futures. However, this petition that has been signed by so many I think is wrong.

1. We are a democratic nation - the leave side "won". Apparently, many people have regrets now, well actually that's too late.

2. Another referendum would be massively unsettling and I think would cause civil unrest led by the far-right of the leave side (no I am NOT saying that all leavers are xenophobes and racists but there is an element that are).

3. How utterly weak would we appear on the global stage particularly in Europe? Even if we ran another referendum and voted to stay, the EU would laugh us out. Our deals would be nowhere near what they are now.

I think unfortunately, we have made our bed and now we have to lie in it. The only way forward is to prepare ourselves for a rocky ride and get on with it.

My credentials, for what it's worth - I studied the EU for 4 years at degree level and European politics at Masters levels. I studied in France for a year funded by the EU. I am at the very core European and I am deeply saddened by the result, but I really believe we have to move forward.

ThomasRichard Mon 27-Jun-16 07:51:01

I agree. I'm furious at the result but it's done now and we have to make the best of it.

GingerIvy Mon 27-Jun-16 07:52:39

I'm right there with you. I think people underestimate what would be involved in another referendum. It would mean opening up voter registration again, another months long campaign, more division in the country. And it couldn't be done until after both parties have resolved their leadership issues. That means not until next spring at the earliest.

I cannot imagine the government willingly putting the country through that. It would be financially devastating due to the uncertainty. It would also signal huge weakness to the EU, and they would eviscerate us in negotiations.

People are also not taking into account that we could have a million of them, voting over and over again on the same issue, and even if it did come out Remain at some point, the civil unrest that would result the moment they called for a new referendum would be catastrophic. And how would the EU react? We've already publicly stated we want out. They've already state they want out. They're not going to just say "yeah, you've utterly shaken the stability of the EU, damaged the markets temporarily, influenced other countries to consider leaving, but okay, we'll take you back with open arms." Not going to happen. Anyone that thinks we can just ignore it and it will go away is very naive indeed.

GingerIvy Mon 27-Jun-16 07:56:16

I do wish that random people in the government would quit saying "oh we'll just have to have another referendum." Tony Blair, I'm looking at you, you meddling twat. Honestly, do they not think about what they say before they open their mouths?? Yes, by all means, let's increase the civil unrest by telling people it can easily happen. Osborne's speech very clearly stated today that the people have voted, and we will abide by that. It doesn't sound like they're changing direction.

Lottielou7 Mon 27-Jun-16 07:57:05

No, it's quite clear now that the leave camp did not have a plan in the event of winning.

This madness needs to be stopped, particularly as there was such a slim majority.

I don't care how it makes the UK look tbh. David Cameron should never have given the electorate the chance to fuck things up to this level.

gunting Mon 27-Jun-16 07:59:40

I campaigned for remain and I am still devastated.

I don't think the petition will change anything but I also don't think articles like this one help.

Meggymoodle Mon 27-Jun-16 08:03:29

Lottie you may not care how it makes the UK look but how we look will affect how we operate on a global scale. I honestly don't think it will do us any favours. Begging to be allowed back into the EU now would render us massively weakened.

And no David Cameron should not have granted a referendum but he did and now we are here - we have to get on with it. My knee jerk reaction on Friday was the same - we have to fix this. But actually it can't be fixed. I think we just have to weather it. I agree that the leave campaign had no plan at all, but they'll have to come up with one bloody quickly.

Join the Lib Dems would be my proposal to you - they might get us back in in 10-15 years after this has all died down. If, that is the EU survives - which it may not; we can then all start again.....

TweeterandtheMonkeyman Mon 27-Jun-16 08:05:29

No, it's done now. The Government asked us a question and the majority responded with a Leave vote. It's now up to the Government to try and negotiate a smooth (as possible) exit from the EU.
I didn't agree with this referendum, I didn't ask for it (voted Labour ) , and I certainly don't think the British public should be made to go through this circus a second time.

DiggersRest Mon 27-Jun-16 08:09:16

Meggy we're not begging to be allowed back in. We've not left, it's a referendum, not a legally binding contract.

The UK looks terrible now, worse so because there simply is no plan out. It's a shambles and I'm pretty glad I'm not British at the moment as you're all going to be tarred with this outcome, regardless of whether it's followed through or not, for a long time.

chantico Mon 27-Jun-16 08:11:13

Now that the petition is being investigated for irregularities, itn's seriously unlikely to achieve anything.

(And had to giggle at your opening sentence. I assume you don't MN over the weekend)

GingerIvy Mon 27-Jun-16 08:16:19

I think the divide that another Leave/Remain campaign would cause would literally tear apart the country. It would ramp up hostilities for at least another six months or more. People seem to think the government can just say "hey, we'll have another referendum just to make sure everyone's really certain, shall we? How's next week sound to you all?" That is NOT the way it works. It would take a minimum of 6 months and likely longer to do it properly, because if they didn't do it properly, the results would be called into question again, and the country would implode.

It sets a dreadful precedent, and if we have a GE, I am just WAITING for huge numbers of people to be screaming "wait wait! We didn't agree with the result! One of the politicians lied! Revote! Revote!" Can you really not see the damage this does to democracy if we redo it?? I hope the god the government is not that stupid to have another referendum. And I note LibDems are now saying that this will be their platform if there's a GE. So on that note, I hope there won't be a GE. I hope a new conservative leader takes over (quickly) and A50 is done and we work towards sorting this as quickly and simply as humanly possible.

If we try to stay in the EU, they will impose MANY unwanted conditions on us - first and foremost among them? Changing to the Euro. Guaranteed they will.

Bookaboo Mon 27-Jun-16 08:17:25

Absolutley agree OP and I also voted remain, although I am wondering why a threshold wasn't agreed before the referendum.
All we are left with now is hope.

Brokenbiscuit Mon 27-Jun-16 08:17:54

I agree with you, OP. I don't think we should ever have had the referendum but the reality is, we did have one and we voted to leave. Personally I think it's a disaster for our country, but we're going to have to live with it.

GingerIvy Mon 27-Jun-16 08:18:30

5 years from now, 10 years from now, I suspect the EU will be on its knees anyway. I did not vote Leave, but I do feel that getting out on our own terms by negotiating is far preferable than digging our way out from a collapsed EU.

GingerIvy Mon 27-Jun-16 08:20:40

With all the other countries struggling financially, I was truly worried that we would be responsible for helping to bail out other countries time and time again, and when our country finally tanked because of the financial burden of bailing out everyone else, the EU wouldn't have the means to bail the UK out. And that's a very real concern.

Meggymoodle Mon 27-Jun-16 08:20:54

Uh no - no MN over the weekend but I realised there might've been a few on this - hence the caveat at the beginning! Sorry smile

Diggers - no I realise we haven't left, but this "advisory" referendum hasn't actually been done privately out of the glare of global media/markets has it? We have caused massive instability on a global scale - if we run another referendum it would be catastrophic.

If we try to stay in the EU, they will impose MANY unwanted conditions on us - first and foremost among them? Changing to the Euro. Guaranteed they will. Yes - I agree

GingerIvy Mon 27-Jun-16 08:24:44

Imagine how it would damage our trade possibilities with EVERYONE if we did another referendum and caused another bout of instability globally.

GingerIvy Mon 27-Jun-16 08:25:26

It would also make us look unreliable, unstable, and indecisive. NOT something we want, when we're looking at negotiations of any kind.

Surferjet Mon 27-Jun-16 08:25:44

I've given up talking about the EU, the anger around it has worn me out - but this in no longer about the EU, it's much bigger than that & far more worrying - we live in a country where democracy is not respected ( unless the vote is in your favour ) where certain sections of our society look down on the masses with hatred & contempt, I kinda knew that was there anyway, but it has been confirmed & exposed, & yes, it's extremely worrying.
This country is massively divided, & sadly, it's nothing to do with the referendum.

Muskateersmummy Mon 27-Jun-16 08:27:51

I agree. I'm utterly disappointed with the result but what the country needs now is a plan, strong leadership and some form of stability. More insecurities like the new PM, the changing opposition party, another referendum and the potential of a fresh Scottish referendum all adds to the instability of the U.K. Which is hurting the markets.

We need to just get on with it. It was a democratic vote, we can't go about changing or ignoring it. That's a hideous dangerous precedent to start setting.

HowLongTillTippingPoint Mon 27-Jun-16 08:31:11

I also voted Remain and I don't think we should have a re-vote either. If we do I wont bother voting in it, what's the point.

We need to accept that leave won and deal with the situation we now have for the future.

GingerIvy Mon 27-Jun-16 08:35:37

Yes, I've been extremely saddened by the hostility and assumptions from many of the Remain voters, including their assumptions that elderly relatives, for example, should be voting for what's best for their grandchildren and voting the same as their adult children, rather than choosing their own vote. It's appalling to see. Is this how far from democracy and freedom we've strayed? Or is this an example of younger generations being much too self centered and intolerant of differing opinions? I shudder to think how people today would deal with the struggles (blackouts, rationing, and so on) that this country went through previously. The moment the internet went down or satellite tv buzzed off, they'd be screaming in the streets.

GingerIvy Mon 27-Jun-16 08:36:25

I feel old typing that, and I'm really not that old. Rather the in-between generation. Not elderly, but not in my 20s/30s either.

TheNaze73 Mon 27-Jun-16 08:38:38

There are many things us remainers can do to try to move things forward however, joining the LibDems???

GingerIvy Mon 27-Jun-16 08:40:35

Surferjet It's telling that so many cannot seem to recognise that many that voted for Leave did so because they felt that they were not being listened to by government, indeed felt downtrodden by the government, and felt that a change couldn't really be worse than what they are dealing with now and might even provide a chance for positive change. I can see that, and I can't honestly say they're wrong. The fact that so many cannot see that kind of worries me that we're doomed to keep repeating the same mistakes. I'd like to think it would be a wake up call to the government, but the LibDems have already demonstrated that it is not, as they are planning on putting forth a platform in the hopes of a GE that they will not move ahead with the Brexit at all. I could not vote for a party that will happily ignore a democratic vote of the people, regardless of whether or not the outcome was what I wanted.

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