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The Leave Campaign don't have a post-Brexit plan

(145 Posts)
noblegiraffe Sun 26-Jun-16 15:07:08

Faisal Islam says he was told this a couple of hours ago

twitter.com/simonnricketts/status/747055676413845504

And why don't they have one? Boris never expected to win.
youtu.be/ERHfuzyic8M (Anna Soubry MP)

As evidenced by the complete lack of leadership about this hugely important and divisive issue post-referendum. No plan, no action, and where is Boris?

What an omnishambles.

OurBlanche Sun 26-Jun-16 15:11:27

Sadly nor does the incumbent government and Prime Minister, who called the referendum!

Shite all round, really.

Mistigri Sun 26-Jun-16 15:17:27

That Anna Soubry interview is shock

She's not saying anything that hasn't already been said on here, but to hear it from a Tory, this soon, is astonishing. Good for her, anyway.

Mistigri Sun 26-Jun-16 15:20:36

the incumbent government

You mean:

Commons Leader Chris Grayling
Culture Secretary John Whittingdale
Northern Ireland Secretary Theresa Villiers
Justice Secretary Michael Gove
Minister of State for Employment Priti Patel*
Former Mayor of London Boris Johnson

Are they not members of the "incumbent government"?

OurBlanche Sun 26-Jun-16 15:31:16

IDS and Priti Patel have been loud this morning, not heard much from the others... bluster on Friday, from all sides, it all went quite quiet yesterday, lots of pundits reporting who had said what, Nicola Sturgeon was very loud but that is about it!

Oh, forgot, all the resignations, they have been quite loud, and the calls for resignations... and the let's leave it tl November, it can then be an SEP... lots of ex cabinet ministers talking, some sounding quite reasonable...

Mistigri Sun 26-Jun-16 15:33:55

Still no plan though. When you jump out of a plane if is generally considered good practice to have a parachute or two.

OurBlanche Sun 26-Jun-16 15:36:57

True smile

It does beggar belief that a PM can call a referendum and NOT have a plan in place, that he is prepared to talk about, immediately, to the electorate!

80sMum Sun 26-Jun-16 15:43:19

It seems to me that David Cameron and Boris Johnson are the JR Ewing and Cliff Barnes of the Conservative party! Each trying to out manoeuvre the other.

Topseyt Sun 26-Jun-16 15:47:24

Boris is not a true Eurosceptic.

He saw Brexit as his chance to oust Cameron, go for the Tory leadership and then sweep into No. 10. The problem is, he banked on Remain having narrowly won the referendum, so that he would not need an exit plan.

It backfired. He was looking so shocked and scared at his "victory" speech because this was not how it was meant to pan out. There is no exit strategy.

OddBoots Sun 26-Jun-16 15:51:42

This isn't a surprise, if they had an actual plan they would have detailed it before the vote rather than just putting out negative claims (true or otherwise) about the EU and things that people thought might be linked to the EU.

ShatnersBassoon Sun 26-Jun-16 15:57:41

Topseyt, I think you're absolutely bang on the money there. Boris was expecting to be shoved to the top, pretending to be sorry that we'd had to remain in the EU before quickly moving on.

He should have been more careful about what he pretended to wish for.

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Jun-16 16:05:08

Dominic Cummings, the Leave Campaign manager discussed possible No vote campaign strategies on his blog last year. He argues for not having an exit strategy, and using the cushion of second referendum.

dominiccummings.wordpress.com/2015/06/23/on-the-referendum-6-exit-plans-and-a-second-referendum/

Not having an exit plan wasn't incompetency, it was deliberate.

3) Does NO need to have a unified plan for exit? A Government trying to leave the EU obviously needs an exit plan. The SNP needed an exit plan. But the NO campaign is neither a political party nor a government. It has no locus to negotiate a new deal. Does it need an exit plan, or does that simply provide an undefendable target and open an unwinnable debate for a non-government entity?

A. Creating an exit plan that makes sense and which all reasonable people could unite around seems an almost insuperable task. Eurosceptic groups have been divided for years about many of the basic policy and political questions. An interesting attempt at such a plan is FLEXCIT based on using the EEA as a transition phase – remaining in the Single Market and retaining a (modified) version of free movement – while a better deal, inevitably taking years, is negotiated. This is an attempt to take the Single Market out of the referendum debate. I will discuss the merits of this idea another time when I’ve studied it more.

B. Even if one succeeded, the sheer complexity of leaving would involve endless questions of detail that cannot be answered in such a plan even were it to be 20,000 pages long, and the longer it is the more errors are likely. On top of the extremely complex policy issues is a feedback loop – constructing such a plan depends partly on inherently uncertain assumptions about what is politically sellable in a referendum, making it even harder to rally support behind a plan. Further, in market research I have done it is clear that 15 years after the euro debate the general public know nothing more about the EU institutions than they did then. Less than 1% have heard of the EEA. Few MPs know the difference between the EEA and EFTA or the intricacies of the WTO rules. The idea that the public could be effectively educated about such things in the time we have seems unlikely."

Mistigri Sun 26-Jun-16 16:07:59

There's someone on MN who I suspect is employed by Cummings who was banging on about not needing a plan because the leave campaign was not the government.

It's all becoming clearer now.

YourPerception Sun 26-Jun-16 16:09:33

Curious.

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Jun-16 16:20:03

I'm picturing the view from outside the UK now.

UK votes to leave the EU because we're such an awesome country we can totally do better on our own.

Country promptly collapses in a leaderless heap.

Angela Merkel phones Downing Street to discuss our triumphant Brexit but no one will pick up.

It must seem very bizarre.

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Jun-16 16:23:41

There was someone on another thread (now deleted) talking about vision, which isn't the same as plan now is it?

I think I hate Dominic Cummings, treating the future of our country as an exercise in writing propaganda.

Would love to know who you mean, Misti

Mistigri Sun 26-Jun-16 16:31:20

You can PM me though if you've been round these threads you can probably guess. I would guess that a fair number of Internet warriers have been employed via Cumming's company North Wood.

noblegiraffe Sun 26-Jun-16 17:09:16

Ah, no I wasn't really following the threads before the vote so probably wouldn't recognise, but it's interesting as when Gove was Education Secretary and Cummings was his advisor we had the occasional Cummingsesque poster stridently posting on the Education threads in favour of Gove and all his works. Clearly infiltrating MN is one of his tactics. We should probably keep an eye on where he moves next.

RedToothBrush Sun 26-Jun-16 17:56:39

But, but, but,

THEY PROMISED

www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/leave_ministers_commit_to_maintain_eu_funding

MitzyLeFrouf Sun 26-Jun-16 18:13:14

It's all just been an exercise in willy waggling between Cameron and Johnson. What a fucking mess.

Showmethewaytogohome Sun 26-Jun-16 18:27:39

Interesting Misti

I wonder if at least one of them was on a thread I started where I just asked what the plan would be - the replies of some were .....puzzling

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2667442-So-Leavers-what-happens-Friday-if-you-win-Whats-the-plan-Stan?

To me it was the most obvious question - but I took some flack for a bit - then silence - oh and NO answer at all

Can you PM me? (PS was not employed by Remain as some lovely poster suggested - just a woman with a hell of a lot of experience in planning)

RedToothBrush Sun 26-Jun-16 18:28:21

If this is all true and was the plan all along, I'm not sure if they have counted on unleashing some of the forces bubbling beneath the surface in the way it has been.

It sounds like a high stakes gamble akin to Russian Roulette. Who was going to take the political bullet?

Showmethewaytogohome Sun 26-Jun-16 18:45:52

You could not make it up! How the hell do we have such calculating but incompetent self centred politicians? Playing with our country and 65million lives for what? This is making me more and more angry - who the hell do they think they are?

This has got to change - no matter what happens with Brexit.

RiceCrispieTreats Sun 26-Jun-16 18:50:51

That is fascinating.

So if I paraphrase correctly from the quote by Dominic Cummings, he is saying:

"If we had a plan, then it would be open to criticism during the campaign. Criticism would harm our election prospects.

A) Instead, we're relying on getting to cherry-pick what we want from the Single Market after we've spat on the EU.

B) And anyway our voters would be too thick to understand us trying to explain things to them."

Mrskeats Sun 26-Jun-16 18:56:06

Of course they had a plan
They didnt think the British public was stupid enough to vote leave but guess what??
But its ok people on my fb keep saying 'it will be ok hun'

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