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Misconceptions about Leave Voters

(142 Posts)
Asprilla11 Sat 25-Jun-16 22:02:57

There has been a lot of ill-informed, generalising and just downright nasty lies and comments in the past couple of days, from BOTH sides.

I'd like to offer what I consider is a more accurate set of reasons and beliefs as to why people voted leave, as I did.

All the leave voters are racist or xenophobic and only voted because of immigration

Simply not true, you only have to look at the numbers involved.

17 million people voted leave, lets say all UKIP voters are racist (I don't know if they are as I am not a UKIP voter but for arguments sake) and all of them voted leave because of immigration (5 million max). Now lets say the odious Farage, Johnson and Gove persuaded another 3 million people to vote solely on immigration, who may or may not have had legitimate concerns about it, that is 8 million, which I think is generous to say the least. Were they all racist or xenophobic? I doubt it!

All leave voters are thick, poorly educated or even uneducated who didn't understand

and

All young people voted remain and all old people voted leave and shafted their children and grandchildren

A few people who voted remain have pointed to a few surveys that have been done to find out who voted what way and what their backgrounds are. These surveys seemed to show that the younger people voted remain and the oap's voted leave. They also seemed to show that a higher proportion of people who voted remain have degrees (and higher) and so they must be more intelligent.

Whilst I don't doubt this could well be the case, I'd also point out the surveys were of less than 20,000 people, out of the more than 33 million people that voted, such a small survey size, even if you add all the surveys together is still far too small to be called statistically valid.
There is also the fact that people with a degree (or higher) are not automatically more intelligent, there are many degrees that would have no impact at all on how intelligent someone is when faced with a political decision. It's also naive and quite frankly insulting to suggest people who haven't been to University are less intelligent, it's another generalisation.

Leave voters thought there will now be zero immigration from the EU and are shocked to hear it won't be the case

Again simply not true. Most leave voters, (especially the ones who didn't vote to do with immigration) know fine well there will still be immigration from both EU and None-EU countries, they simply wanted the ability to choose the right people, from all countries that will bring an immediate benefit to the UK.

I don't doubt that some of the racist or xenophobic leave voters actually thought this would be the case, but they are in the minority, not the majority. Don't judge your opinions from forums, comments sections, radio and tv interviews because they don't add up to 17 million.

All leave voters hate immigrants

Nope and I would say it's only the minority that do, or may do. Neither do the majority want or expect the EU immigrants already here to leave, we just simply don't them to. However what some of the remain voters don't understand is that immigration in some areas of the UK does provide problems, espcially in the poorest parts of the country. Not all immigrants work and nor do all british people, put if you have a part of the country where unemployment is high, wages are low and housing is poor and then you move the poorest of the immigrants in to the same area then you are going to have tension, especially if some of the immigrants don't try to integrate. But if you also factor in that some of those poorer british residents are racist then who do you think they are going to target their fury at?

Immigration doesn't bother me, here in Newcastle we aren't greatly affected. I know EU immigration has been more than positive to the UK economy and diversity. I also know they pay in far, far more than they take out (there are much more british people who leech of the state compared to EU people) and provide vital roles in the NHS and care systems and much more. The issue isn't with where the immigrants come from it's with where they are going to live and the additional service needs it brings. It is a fact that there is not enough houses being built each year to cope with the current UK population growth rate, so when you add over 300,000 extra immigrants then we really, really do need more houses, more schools, more Doctors etc.

Personally I think a hold on immigration (still welcome refugees and asylum seekers) until those houses and schools are built isn't an unreasonable thing to consider. Or you bring in immigrants to build the houses and schools.

Leave voters are little Englanders who don't care about the UK or Europe

Again not true, in fact I think the lack of concern the UK has showed to Greece, Spain, Portugal and other struggling EU countries has been very disappointing and that includes remain voters. Those problems can't be fixed by the EU, it's broken. Look in to Jean-Claude Junker's history and interviews with him (before the referendum) and how the EU Commission vote, how much they spend on travel and accommodation and needless spending. The EU is corrupt and it serves the interests of only a few, not the majority.

The EU will fall apart in the next 2-3 years. But actually I'd like the UK to look towards forming something knew in Europe, that really helps all EU countries and agrees on trade deals (both in and out of the EU), immigration (perhaps each country has a ever reviewed limit relative to it's size etc) and legislation. The current EU does not have that in an open, fair and accountable way.

Have a read of these articles
www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/london-separate-city-state-leave-voters-class

And finally a video from Digby Jones (starts at 44 secs) is he a 'thick' leaver?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQUZ5YOP6Ss

happyandsingle Sat 25-Jun-16 22:06:22

Totally agree with you but you will get the hate campaign wade in soon as we are all thick racist uneducated cunts according to them.

StealthPolarBear Sat 25-Jun-16 22:07:44

" such a small survey size, even if you add all the surveys together is still far too small to be called statistically valid."

Proof of this please as I suspect it's wrong.

StealthPolarBear Sat 25-Jun-16 22:08:24

And I know I've only picked a tiny part but thay because I've just been learning about surveys and sample selection

MrHannahSnell Sat 25-Jun-16 22:09:13

biscuit

Asprilla11 Sat 25-Jun-16 22:10:22

Proof of this please as I suspect it's wrong.

Go and look at the surveys, it tells you the number of respondents and then add them together and then decide if you think that is a fair reflection of 33 million voters.

Asprilla11 Sat 25-Jun-16 22:12:04

MrHannahSnell

Such a grown up response, I thought you remain voters were all debating intelligent types?

PatriciaHolm Sat 25-Jun-16 22:14:16

"I'd also point out the surveys were of less than 20,000 people, out of the more than 33 million people that voted, such a small survey size, even if you add all the surveys together is still far too small to be called statistically valid."

Nope. For a 99% confidence level with a 1% confidence interval, on a population of 33,000,000, you need a sample of 16,633.

(Which means you can be 99% certain that there will only be a 1% margin of error either way.)

It's a bit more complicated than that when you break it down into seperate polls which are looking at different demographics, but if your sample is good, then you need far far fewer people in it than most people think.

StealthPolarBear Sat 25-Jun-16 22:14:44

No there are statistical tests where you can feed in the level of uncertainty and find the sample size you need. It's not based on a feeling. Usually surprisingly small samples are needed for statistically significant results.

StealthPolarBear Sat 25-Jun-16 22:15:04

Thabks patricia

A11TheSmallTh1ngs Sat 25-Jun-16 22:16:29

Don't you understand how surveys work? You're not doing much to dispel the stereotype of leave voters being thick, are you?

allegretto Sat 25-Jun-16 22:17:01

I dont think all leavers are racist but the leave campaign certainly was.

SalemSaberhagen Sat 25-Jun-16 22:18:26

Patricia got there before I did.

It's always worth checking those sort of statements before presenting it as fact OP. Or did you read it on the side of a bus? smile

MerchantofVenice Sat 25-Jun-16 22:20:09

My parents voted leave. I don't think they're thick, uneducated or nasty.

I do think they are wrong.

I do think they voted primarily out of some vague, unsubstantiated ideal about 'England' that has been hardwired into them from yesteryear. It is virtually impossible to argue with them.

Asprilla11 Sat 25-Jun-16 22:21:44

Sorry I shouldn't have said statistically valid I should have said statistically important, because it means nothing.

StealthPolarBear Sat 25-Jun-16 22:22:58

So if the results are reliable to within 1% how is it not representative?

StealthPolarBear Sat 25-Jun-16 22:23:21

And I assume you knew all the stats then?

Possibilityofanisland Sat 25-Jun-16 22:24:03

Why did you vote leave?

I'm more interested in hearing about that reasoning. It seems hard to come by.

PatriciaHolm Sat 25-Jun-16 22:24:23

What on earth does that mean, OP?

Asprilla11 Sat 25-Jun-16 22:24:59

SalemSaberhagen

I didn't say it was a fact and I should have said important, not valid. But that is all you picked out from it as well as the other remain voters, you pick one little thing about a survey which has nothing to do with the vote and you think you are superior smile

DancingDinosaur Sat 25-Jun-16 22:25:18

Interesting articles op.

StealthPolarBear Sat 25-Jun-16 22:26:02

What makes you think I'm superior? I'm asking you to back up a claim. Is that something you'd rather avoid?

CherryPicking Sat 25-Jun-16 22:26:37

I think the biggest misconception about leave voters is that they had a clue what they were voting for.

WorraLiberty Sat 25-Jun-16 22:26:43

Such a grown up response, I thought you remain voters were all debating intelligent types?

You think all remain voters are the same?

Glitterbug76 Sat 25-Jun-16 22:27:45

Aspirilla, what a inciteful and articulate post ! I have a masters degree work for the local government I'm certainly not racist my dad is Indian and my mum is white British, the reasons I voted out were the following and theses were based on my daily observations
Children's education has been comprised
By teachers having to teach to their class in many different languages ( many friends of mine are teachers and are increasingly frustrated by this) as the English children are saying they feel isolated in class !!
Many of the people I know who have small business have to go through eu red tape to proceed with the smallest change.
Only 13% of export is EU related were being held up for years by Brussels when when our businesses try to negotiate with other parts of the world.
Our judges are constantly being over ruled after making decisions on dangerous criminal that have murdered and raped children, as apparently as its inhumain to make people serve life without parole.
Leading economists have stated That if we had never entered the eu we could have paid back the national debt many times over.
The NHS is stretched to breaking point and we are now way behind many other less developed countries in reducing cancer rates however the EU would have us allowing another 5 countries in.

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