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Question about invalid referendums

(11 Posts)
P0ndLife Sat 25-Jun-16 09:12:05

Obviously asking for a re do just because you didn't get your way is kind of silly and antidemocratic but...
If Nicola says the indyref is invalid because Scots voted to stay in a UK in the EU (now not the case due to EUref) - could EUref be invalid because the English voted to be the UK outside the EU (not England alone as would be the case after indyref2) .

Perhaps the people concerned about migration might think differentl if it was made clear free movement wouldn't stop at Calais but at Gretna Green!!?

(Am a long term lurker, this is my first post, apols for any etiquette errors!)

justbogoff Sat 25-Jun-16 09:16:06

I'm afraid just because people didn't understand the enormity of what they were doing we don't get a do-over.
Scotland will leave the UK, NI looks like an issue and the Spanish are after Gibraltar again.
If anyone didn't think this was likely to happen hadn't done their research.
But "oh, I didn't mean THAT" is not a reasonable argument.

WalrusGumboot Sat 25-Jun-16 09:17:22

Have you forgotten about Wales?

P0ndLife Sat 25-Jun-16 09:22:43

Of course... But couldn't you say the same for the Scots?
Either they have to accept that they might not have meant to leave the EU when they voted to stay... Or 'material change' is grounds for a new ref.
No one in England and Wales ticked a box to be an E&W out of the EU (with a land border) just as no Scot ticked a box to be part of a UK out of the EU.

I agree it's unlikely but logically it's the same no??

Bookaboo Sat 25-Jun-16 09:31:08

I think this is a good point OP !

darceybussell Sat 25-Jun-16 09:32:59

I feel like absolutely anything is possible now, two days ago I'd have thought it was ridiculous to suggest that Scotland and London might form a separate country to stay in the EU, and I still think it's ludicrous, but after yesterday I'm thinking dear god this stuff could actually happen!

howabout Sat 25-Jun-16 09:42:33

Unconvinced it is a done deal that Scotland does want to leave the UK. If you look at the voting pattern it looks like the 25% Conservative vote was pretty solidly remain and they would also pretty solidly vote NO in Indyref2. That leads me to believe the 38% in Scotland who voted Leave on Thursday are mostly Nationalists who may well prefer Devo max within the UK to ceding sovereignty as an insignificant country within the EU.

P0ndLife Sat 25-Jun-16 09:47:12

I did wonder that how about. Maybe PM Boris ( 😨 ) might end up offering DevoMax to head off a second indyref/Nicola S's EU negotiations?

Bookaboo Sat 25-Jun-16 09:53:59

Or we could get Ruth Davidson for PM and that might save us?

P0ndLife Sat 25-Jun-16 10:09:57

Ha! If the Scots don't leave, I reckon she'll be PM one day!

BungoWomble Sat 25-Jun-16 10:23:12

Oh please don't go there.

Look, it was a straight count. No ballsed-up crooked constituencies to deal with, no arbitrarily-appointed seats, just a straight count. Well and truly advertised in advance so I have little sympathy with those who didn't want to turn up.

Questioning the result no matter how strongly you disagree with it and whatever catastrophe you now think is looming (I can come up with a few doomsday scenarios) is not going to help. We need to pull together now, think about education and investment for those who've been so abandoned that they would do this out of ignorance spite and hate, and deal with what we've got. Clean the mess up, don't make more, and look to the future.

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