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Question for Leavers about the United Kingdom and the Union: Opinions needed

(6 Posts)
georgetteheyersbonnet Fri 24-Jun-16 20:57:43

So: it's now pretty much dead cert that Scotland will have another independence referendum, which will probably go for independence.

Say that happens; and Northern Ireland also votes to rejoin a united Ireland in the EU.

It's ten years from now. Our country is having to change its name - we can no longer call ourselves the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. We also can't call ourselves Great Britain, because that means the united kingdoms of England and Scotland.

We can go back to calling ourselves just The Kingdom of England (which technically includes Wales as it was part of England at the time of the Acts of Union). However the Welsh are getting increasingly restive and demand that they be recognised equally, but we can't call ourselves the United Kingdom of England and Wales, because Wales is a principality, not a kingdom.

So pretty much our only option for what we change our name to is the Kingdom of England and Wales.

We can't use the Union flag/jack any more, as we're no longer in Union. We need a new flag. The Welsh object to St George's flag as it doesn't include the Welsh flag.

Opinions needed on the following:

1. What should our new flag of The Kingdom of England and Wales look like?

2. Did you know when you voted that the Union would essentially disappear, and your country would no longer be either the United Kingdom or Great Britain? (This is also true even if Northern Ireland were to vote to remain in the Union because the "Britain" bit in constitutional law means the Union of England and Scotland. I suppose we could end up with the United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland in a pinch, but we won't be able to describe ourselves as "Britain" any more, Great or otherwise).

3. Will you miss Great Britain/The U.K. when it no longer exists? I mean we've all grown up in it, and it's been the name of our country since 1706, but when it is no longer the name of our nation state I wonder whether we will miss it.

4. Are you happy for your country just to be England (or England and Wales) and for the name Britain to disappear into history? If no, why not?

5. Do you think the above is going to happen? If not, why not? Will we still be allowed to say we're making Britain great again when actually we can't technically call ourselves Britain any more? Will the English people still want to use the Union flag even if there is no Union? (It symbolises the three kingdoms. But sad of us to keep a flag that commemorates something we don't have any more?)

chantico Fri 24-Jun-16 21:05:50

1) the flag can remain by common usage
2) it can still be the United Kingdom, even if the union is E/W, rather than the current set up
3) what people might miss will depend entirely on what succeeds the current arrangements, and whether they are negotiated with good will to find a win/win that reflects what people want.
4) it's not 'my' country
5) no, it won't happen because it is not needed. Areas which secede from UK chart their own way ahead, and do change elements of rUK. But not on the points of detail laid out here

chantico Fri 24-Jun-16 21:07:12

(I didn't vote 'leave' btw, and was just answering because the questions interested me. Hope you don't mind getting a response from outside the group you solicited).

Chris1234567890 Fri 24-Jun-16 21:15:25

It's a huge mistake (yep another one) to assume the Scottish remain vote equals a vote for independence.

Happy for a referendum to happen, but don't be shocked shocked shocked if it's rejected yet again.

Oh, and it also relies on there being an EU (as you understand it to be) in existence at that time........

georgetteheyersbonnet Fri 24-Jun-16 22:18:35

2) it can still be the United Kingdom, even if the union is E/W, rather than the current set up

No, since Wales is not a kingdom but a principality, and is in fact part of England in the Acts of Union.

We won't be able to call ourselves "Britain" because that is a descriptive term for the Union of England and Scotland. Once Scotland leaves it ceases to exist as an entity.

We'd become in the first instance the United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland; and if Northern Ireland left, technically we revert simply to the Kingdom of England.

Britain, or Great Britain, just become a historical artefact. We don't get to use the name by convention.

This is a constitutional crisis of unprecedented proportions since the English Civil War. Cameron presumably has a sense by now of what he's done: that's why he looked so ashen this morning, and it's why Johnson looks so terrified now. The Leavers have no idea. It affects everything we do, all areas of our constitution, and every law we have passed since 1706. The Commonwealth. NATO. Everything. Make no mistake, this is a seismic change, and the Britain you know and grew up with simply won't exist at the end of it.

STIDW Fri 24-Jun-16 23:10:56

It's a huge mistake (yep another one) to assume the Scottish remain vote equals a vote for independence.

Happy for a referendum to happen, but don't be shocked shocked shocked if it's rejected yet again.

Oh, and it also relies on there being an EU (as you understand it to be) in existence at that time........

I don't think the demise of the EU us going to happen anytime soon. The Eurozone is showing signs of economic recovery & their GPD was higher in the last quarter than ours. Today we fell from the fifth largest economy in the world to the sixth.

People were put off voting in the Indyref because they were scared of the financial uncertainty, losing their savings/pensions, currency & they were told that staying in the Union would keep them in the Eu. There is actually no reason why Scotland can't keep the £ either officially or unofficially (try googling what Mervyn King says)

Today the UK voted to leave & people saw the £ & markets fall anyway so the premise upon which they had voted has changed. Many of those I met today have changed their mind & say they would now vote Yes.

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