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Brexit: Facts Not Fear

(6 Posts)
Auti Wed 22-Jun-16 09:55:02

For any waverers, a concise presentation from an editor of The Spectator

Auti Wed 22-Jun-16 10:14:01

“Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves.”
DH Lawrence

penisbeakerlaminateflooringetc Wed 22-Jun-16 10:15:52


Photosythesis Wed 22-Jun-16 12:08:25

I watched the whole video...

EU Commission power: The Brexit side always miss something out here..They can't just propose any legislation they like. The EU Council (the heads of the national governments) sets the policy directions and priorities for the EU. The Commission's legislative job is to come up with concrete proposals for legislation to implement these policies. It involves a lot of consultations with stakeholders and there is a lot of oversight on them from the EU parliament. But these are just proposals - no EU legislation can pass without being voted through by the elected politicians (EU parliament and the European Council - our Prime Minister et al), who can also amend them and request further proposals for legislation. The job of the European Court is to enable the agreed treaties of the European Union to be enforced when we or other countries are alleged to infringe the treaties we have signed up to. In any case the Commission is a prime candidate for further reform (it lost some powers at Lisbon). See the the end of my post for the kinds of things that are actually decided at European level.

As for the claim that EU laws can't be repealed, just google EU directive repealed or EU regulation repealed.

72 no votes, 72 lost in the EU Council: Even with the Eurosceptic Conservative government we've been on the winning side 87% of votes in recent years, but even that's not the whole story. Many things don't even get to a vote because there is too much opposition for it to go through. It only goes to a vote if it's already very likely to go through, albeit sometimes with opposition from us or other countries, some of which might be less likely to register their opposition in the vote. Here's an attempt to measure how close we get to our desired policy outcomes:

And a measure of UK influence

59% of laws: They are mainly counting regulations as well as directives there, each regulation as a separate law. If they are as significant or controversial as an act of parliament why is there much more discussion in the domestic and political press about domestic legislation than EU legislation?

Expanding Eurozone outvoting us: There's widespread acknowledgement that rules are needed to satisfy the differing levels of EU integration, the needs of Eurozone and non Eurozone states so that laws can apply just to certain groups (at the moment its tricky to do that). The renegotiation, while giving up vetoing eurozone intergration, on the other hand has various protections for non-Eurozone countries. In any case where there are conflicts of interest it'll likely be on financial stability issues like banker bonuses, yet our financial services sector is overwhelmingly in favour of remaining. We want the eurozone to get on with the integration they need to do to to make the Euro work better, but it sounds to me like they'll just muddle along

Taxation without representation There is no direct eu taxation. Regarding indirect taxation there is harmonisation of VAT rates to avoid market distortions in the internal market. They do however take a lot of non-EU import duties and a small contribution of VAT revenues (0.3%) and of course there is the EU budget coming from the treasury funds, but as above and others have said, we are represented on various levels in the EU.

Finally, what actually happens at EU level?

When I look at lists of EU directives, I see that they cover areas that are best tackled by our countries working together. By sharing some sovereignity in these areas, we have a net gain in control over many things that matter to us. A stronger economy also gives us more influence on the world. These directives can be put into a few categories, some into more than one:

Cross border issues like airlines, fighting international crime, anti-fraud, anti-money laundering, tax evasion, intellectual property.

There are single market rules like harmonising product standards to ease trade and improve safety and energy efficiency standards for consumers, and other rules to make the single market function more effectively to boost trade and economic growth.

Many things are aimed at preventing a race to the bottom by setting minimum standards in areas like environmental protections, employment protections, health and safety, pollution. Developed nations around the world face the issue of multinational corporations playing one country off against another for weaker regulation. There have been many high profile cases recently where the EU has stood up against monopoly abuses by American firms in particular.

There are also some miscellaneous directives such as implementing sanctions we all agreed to take against Iran and were very effective in bringing that country out from the cold.

Despite these worthwhile measures, Britain is widely acknowledged as one of the most lightly regulated developed economies.

Britain opted out of the Euro, as well as the Schengen passport free area on the continent, so our EU interests primarily concern the single market. We have various other opt outs such as in the areas of justice and home affairs (including asylum policy – and the Dublin rules allow us to return asylum seekers to their first safe EU country of arrival). We are also opted out of Eurozone bailouts – the Leave campaign tell a half truth to deceive the public into believing that we bailed out Greece last year. We have a very customised relationship with the EU, and everyone accepts that differing levels of integration is the only sustainable future for the European Union.

Slingcrump Wed 22-Jun-16 14:03:50

See that Photosythesis has said everything I was about to say and expressed it better than I ever could smile

Slingcrump Wed 22-Jun-16 14:14:46

This is a pro-Remain article but I believe it offers a balanced overview of what is at stake

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