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Take your country back from those who seek to destroy it

(91 Posts)

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MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Sun 19-Jun-16 20:47:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ouriana Sun 19-Jun-16 20:59:00

Yet another article that is essentially trashing the opposite side rather than any facts or coherent discussion or debate.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Sun 19-Jun-16 21:05:14

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Ouriana Sun 19-Jun-16 21:12:37

There is debate, of course there is.
Have a look at thread titles on here.
The EU army.
Uncontrolled immigration and how or if the infrastructure of our country can be developed to supprt it.
Whether we should be trading in a closed market or encoraging trade within the developing world.
Fishing reforms.
Juncket siad himself the EU glory days are over. How can that be adressed?

Just once I would like to see an article that adresses some of the issues, rather than "them lot are knobs, vote for us."

AnnaForbes Sun 19-Jun-16 21:17:07

Not a very good article at all. Misguided, biased and just plain wrong as one of the comments reads.

Immediate thoughts:

know-nothing movement of loud mouths and closed minds
That's the Remainers more so than the Leave campaigners. All along, Remain have been more aggressive (including on here).

you cannot deny that the Leave campaign has had to head into the sewers of conspiracy theory and race politics because it had nowhere else to go.
Aside from "race politics" there are many good reasons for Brexit, most of all our democracy is at stake like never before. I'd say that's a place worth going.

there is absolutely no prospect of Turkey joining the EU.
Given Cameron is well-documented in spelling out his determination to hasten Turkey's accession, given the team in the British Embassy dedicated to helping Turkey join, the visa-free travel deal and the £1.2 billion we have we have pledged in order to help ease Turkey's preparation to join, I'd say he is in denial about this one.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Sun 19-Jun-16 21:26:38

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MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Sun 19-Jun-16 21:26:50

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MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Sun 19-Jun-16 21:30:36

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MorrisZapp Sun 19-Jun-16 21:35:54

I'm. Scottish and considerably less invested in this but I don't understand how the remainers are so worried about lies, bias etc when the entire UK establishment is vocally pro brexit.

Farage isn't an mp, BoJo is no longer mayor. All UK political parties support leave. It's hardly an unfair fight against remain is it.

I'm a remainer btw, just feel massive deja vu following Scottish indyref.

Ouriana Sun 19-Jun-16 21:37:24

But there are lies in that article.
I would love to see one article from the Remain camp that focused on actual facts that I could read and think to myself, yes thats is my fears of the future of the EU dismissed, I'll vote Remain.
Not another slanging session thats justified because the leave camp started it.

I actually agree its sickening but from both sides.

SpringingIntoAction Sun 19-Jun-16 21:41:56

I'm. Scottish and considerably less invested in this but I don't understand how the remainers are so worried about lies, bias etc when the entire UK establishment is vocally pro brexit.

confused entire UK establishment is pro Brexit ??

Farage isn't an mp, BoJo is no longer mayor. All UK political parties support leave. It's hardly an unfair fight against remain is it.

confused all UK political parties support Leave??

Am I in a parallel universe. Is up now down?

OhtoblazeswithElvira Sun 19-Jun-16 21:43:02

Hovercraft you are so right. This board has been taken over by a few, very active posters spouting lies full-time to shut out any debate. They have been very successful, if only in driving out dissent. I believe the way the Brexit campaign is being conducted, and the effect it's having on society,will be studied and analysed in years to come.

I think that there is no place for facts, science or truth in our society anymore. It is so sad to see that good people are so gullible, and a few politicians so so unscrupulous. I'm not sure where we're heading but it doesn't look like a nice place sad

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Sun 19-Jun-16 21:43:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Appletreeblossom123 Sun 19-Jun-16 21:43:24

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MorrisZapp Sun 19-Jun-16 21:46:02

Lol spring Yes I'm talking shit. I meant of course the entire establishment is pro remain. Been a long day, sorry.

I'm a remainer.

So are all the politicians.

Where's the bias. That was meant to be my point, rather badly made.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Sun 19-Jun-16 21:48:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ouriana Sun 19-Jun-16 21:53:40

Im currently pro leave but very very willing to change my mind; I just want to do it on the basis of facts rather than scare mongering. Shall check out the links thankyou!

Appletreeblossom123 Sun 19-Jun-16 21:54:49

Springing I see that we have cross-posted on the same thread. Please could you explain, in the light of my post above, your basis for stating that you had checked and found the submission of Full Fact's accounts to the Charity Commission to be overdue? By way of reminder, I set out below the relevant parts of my previous post.

According to the Charity Commission website, "Until the accounts and Annual Returns for the first full financial period after registration are received or become overdue, newly registered charities are recorded on the charity overview page as “newly registered” and their banner is outlined in green."

This is the case for Full Fact. Link to Charity Commission website attached. apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityFramework.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1158683&SubsidiaryNumber=0

So according to the Charity Commission website, not only are Full Fact's accounts not overdue now, but they have never been overdue.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Sun 19-Jun-16 21:57:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Appletreeblossom123 Sun 19-Jun-16 22:07:38

Hi Hovercraft. I was genuinely grateful for your post and that of PausingFlatly last night, as a felt I was fighting a bit of a lone battle in refuting the innuendo and downright untrue statements made by the posters referred to above. The trouble is that fact checking is time consuming whereas it takes seconds to type a lie as no checking is involved! I got to bed very late last night having spent some time double checking the Charity Commission's website and ordering my thoughts in order to post. I did it because my concern is that if untruths go unchallenged, people who are following the thread may simply assume the statements are true.

Appletreeblossom123 Sun 19-Jun-16 22:14:44

Ouriana, since my original post about Full Fact, Mumsnet has announced that a director from Full Fact will be one of the people on their panel of EU experts in their webchat tomorrow, so you could post your own question to Full Fact if you want.

Winterbiscuit Sun 19-Jun-16 22:17:48

I don't know anyone who "seeks to destroy our country" hmm People are voting on what they believe to be best. The economy isn't everyone's top priority, no matter how many outlandish predictions are made. How people feel in any given situation is just as important to our wellbeing. People are saying they value freedom more than money and that you can't put a price on democracy. I think many of us would find it a massive relief to be out of the EU.

A good deal of what the Remainers say isn't "fact". If you listen carefully to Cameron et al they often say/imply what could happen, and use the worst-case scenario each time. They frequently use the technique of planting seeds of doubt by asking loaded questions such as "Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured?" with imagery of war graves.

The blinkered insistence on facts alone reminds me of Gradgrind in Dickens' "Hard Times":

"Now, what I want is Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts; nothing else will ever be of any service to them.”

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Sun 19-Jun-16 22:22:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhtoblazeswithElvira Sun 19-Jun-16 22:31:33

Having read the article (thanks OP) something has dawned on me...these lies and this contempt for truh are only the beginning. I thought they would end after Thursday, but I see now that they will only get worse. I believe the UK will vote for Brexit and when the shit hits the fan the spin will continue...

The economy crashes = it's the immigrants' fault
The farming sector shrinks and food prices go up = it's the EU'S fault
Etc. More lies and more hatred.

I think it's too late and the UK is on its way to destruction. Hopefully I'm wrong probably hormonal

SpringingIntoAction Sun 19-Jun-16 22:34:45

I find it sickening that the last post contained 5 instances of the word 'lies' and the accusation, made in many previous posts that anyone who doesn't agree with their point of view is telling lies, or lying or a liar.

Insisting that all other viewpoints apart from their own are invalid or lies is bigoted and facist.

Try to keep the tome tolerant and friendly.

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