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Non UK EU national's opinions on Brexit?

(31 Posts)
Jeanniejampots80 Sat 18-Jun-16 17:54:34

As an Irish MN I find the whole refferendum a bit mad. In so far as you are all being asked to make a massive decision between A&B where there is absolutely no concrete info on what will happen with an exit. I have been following it a lot as it will impact Ireland but as far as I can see what team A say team B contradict and visa versa. It would scare me silly to be making a decision based on guess work.

Now as a citizen of a small country that I feel def needs and benefits from the EU I would definitely be voting remain but even if I lived in the UK and had different opinions I think I would vote remain purely based on lack of concrete info.

I am also just back from a holiday in the UK and was shocked by the lack of posters on lampposts! In Ireland there would be millions!!!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 18-Jun-16 18:00:22

Most councils have banned political posters on things owned by them

BritBrit Sat 18-Jun-16 18:04:05

You say there is no concrete info over Brexit but what info do we have about staying in? which countries will join in the future & when, what will immigration levels be for the next 5,10,20 years, when will the immigration crisis end, when will youth unemployment in the EU go down, when will the Euro stabilise if it ever does? how much is the EU budget going to keep going up?

Branleuse Sat 18-Jun-16 18:04:53

All the EU nationals I know, think the whole thing is bizarre and want us to remain, probably at least in part because they dont want to be kicked out, and one of my friends finds the leave stuff really intimidating and feels like shes hated

namechangeparents Sat 18-Jun-16 18:11:12

We know that if we stay employment laws will remain in force. If we leave, we do not know that. And no, there won't be riots on the street if Boris does away with the Working Time Directive and maternity rights but a lot of people will be very miserable.

We know that if we stay, we have the right to holiday, work and study in another EU country. It seems unlikely that the EU would really punish us by introducing visa requirements, but it is an unknown.

We can surmise that there will be economic upheaval in the short-term. How long is "short-term"? No idea. If we stay, things will settle down.

Immigration is not the issue. Not planning for immigration is the issue. Our government needs to sort itself out, invest in services and get more houses built. Pronto. And keep nagging the EU to allow member states more control over immigration. If we leave, there are no guarantees immigration will stop but we may get more illegal immigration because it won't be in France's interests to prevent them coming over from Calais.

Can anyone tell me why withdrawing into isolation is a good thing? It's all very well to say we can look to the rest of the world, but if you take the narrow example of holidays it's much cheaper to holiday in Europe than it is outside Europe. And we don't all want to go to Cornwall as an alternative.

As for other countries joining we have an absolute veto on new members. Turkey cannot join without our say-so. But if we leave, it can. And that means lots of people from a poorer country able to get as far as France (or Ireland). And if we become the tiger economy the Brexiters want us to believe we will, they'll cross the border to NI and stay here. We have more control over EU immigration inside the EU than we do outside.

I suspect I can't persuade people reading this if you are a commited Brexiter. But I firmly believe that if we leave, my son's life chances will be very adversely affected. I do not want that to happen.

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected Sat 18-Jun-16 18:13:31

We have no info either way

all of the debates that resemble debates are about just one of the hundreds of issues: immigration

no intelligent debate about: farming, fishing, health, defence (other than "keep everyone out") the EU boarders, science, environmental issues.. and all of the many many other issues affected by whatever the outcome is.

Just immigration. A massive smokes screen of immigration so that we get no information about anything else.

None of the leave politicians have put forward any practical suggestions about how we'll sort out the rights of EU citizens who have already settled here, noone of the stay politicians have put forward any real commitment to fighting TTIP etc within the EU if we stay, no REAL practical suggestions coming from either side

the stay campaign is weak at best, at worst it's based on "well at least we're not racists like the leave campaign, if you vote leave you aggree with racists" - ignoring that people might have other reasons for voting leave which are being ignored such as concerns about farming or fisheries etc.

The whole thing is disgusting, on both sides. People are genuinely confused

I know quite a few natralised (now have british citizenship) european immigrants in britain voting leave.

Jeanniejampots80 Sat 18-Jun-16 19:43:41

Oh I meant that you (or indeed anyone else) have no idea either way hence the "it's all a bit mad and scary" you are all voting on a complete unknown either way. everyone I have talked I about it here thinks an exit would be daft and indeed any friends I have that now live and work in the UK. Many are planning to move home if you exit. As for visas, one think that I would hate is a border with NI and ROI as I live at the border and would hate to need my passport to visit friends 10 miles up the road!

Jeanniejampots80 Sat 18-Jun-16 19:45:18

Saying that however I do think some border patrol will be instituted and vital to protect both counties. As for economics I think an exit will without a doubt destroy NI even if it does affect the rest of the UK

IoraRua Sat 18-Jun-16 19:45:36

Another Irish national here thinking the entire situation is mad. If faced with a referendum here I would certainly vote remain (none of this Britain leading us out mentality as I have seen discussed before) and would probably be a Remainer if in the UK.
A leave vote will cause a lot of problems with Northern Ireland in particular, I think.

IoraRua Sat 18-Jun-16 19:48:33

A border with NI could be seen by some as reneging on the GFA. Dangerous idea.
The other option would be more border checks on boats/planes from NI to Britain, which wouldn't make the loyalists very happy. It's a mess.
That's without going into the removal of EU funding to NI or the possibility of companies set up there moving down into the Republic to have an EU base.

Jeanniejampots80 Sat 18-Jun-16 20:11:46

I get the whole GFA thing but both Enda Kenny and David C have admitted it's likely. Having checks from NI to rest of UK only protects the UK though which is what DC suggested. If the UK economy tanks and for example all the current non EU migrants in the UK suddenly want to go to an EU country then the ROI would also need some degree of border control as we could deal with an uncontrolled influx either. Either way while I think ROI could benefit don the UK leaving I hope you don't as I don't think we need another round of economic instability anywhere.

IoraRua Sat 18-Jun-16 20:17:36

Oh for sure, I think it's likely they'll put in checks. But I do think it will incite dissidents.The whole situation is messy.
NI itself isn't going to be a hot destination for migrants really I think, so they will need internal checks. Though of course, if the UK does Brexit I don't see why France need to guard the Calais camp, so maybe it'll be a non issue.

Ideally I hope the UK won't Brexit. I think it could be good for Dublin - as a Dub I'm all for that - but it brings a lot of political uncertainty.

MegCleary Sat 18-Jun-16 20:25:06

As an Irish woman living in the UK I am aghast at the thought of a leave vote. The campaign has been so full of fear. I tried explains that no one knows what happens with a leave vote and to only way to reform is from within. But daily I meet people desperate to leave.
I am hoping that the remain voters are just quiet and will pull it out of the fire on the day.
That said if UK votes out and Trump gets in I am moving back home and not leaving again, the world has gone mad.

scaryteacher Sat 18-Jun-16 20:26:04

Though of course, if the UK does Brexit I don't see why France need to guard the Calais camp The border controls with France are actually a bilateral agreement and nothing to do with the EU.

IoraRua Sat 18-Jun-16 20:29:30

Interesting. TIL.

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected Sat 18-Jun-16 20:33:55

as for the NI border, there wouldn't be much benefit for someone who was legitimately in Ireland to just "get across the boarder", because with only EU rights they still wouldn't be able to work and access services in Britain once across, so why leave somewhere where you are legal to be illegal and undocumented where you can only work in dodgy cash in hand jobs?

I do however think that Irish people are counting on Britain always abiding by past agreements when it comes to free travel for Irish people to Britain whether in or out, and I think that that's a bit over optimistic, if you look at how the home office has been quietly pulling rugs from under people's feet over the last few years, The home office does change things with barely any warning. Most of the polish and other EU migrants I know who have been in England long enough to do so, have already got British citizenship (even though the HO has been making it harder and harder in recent years) but very few Irish in England that I know/work with have given themselves that extra safey net.

Jeanniejampots80 Sat 18-Jun-16 20:57:50

Adult obv it's DC that seems worried about the influx from ROI to UK not us. Personally and most other here in Ireland think the prob would most likely be the other way so controls would be needed.

I think many more UK people are hoping to keep the free travel to EU than Irish people are to the UK. Don't forget we have a small population and most of us don't set foot in the UK from one end of the year to the other spending hols in sunnier climbs. Also if some of th rumours are to be believed those who travel regularly for business will be travelling less as companies will move to Ire or traveling to New HQ in other EU countries not to London.

As for the Calais border I can see France being a bit pissy so to speak if the UK leave and giving up the agreement and turning the back from their border but not giving a damn if the migrants head straight for the UK. Why would they?

OrangesandLemonsNow Sat 18-Jun-16 21:02:21

I tried explains that no one knows what happens with a leave vote and to only way to reform is from within. But daily I meet people desperate to leave.

No one knows what will happen if we stay in.

The EU is very different today than it was even 10 years ago let alone 15.

Whichever 'side' wins then I think rather than ignoring the other sides concerns they need to address them.

If it is a close vote for example and remain win to just ignore the half that voted Leave is imo dangerous.

Jeanniejampots80 Sat 18-Jun-16 21:05:49

I think that would be the best outcome Oranges if remain win but the close vote Creates impetus for change for the whole EU (not just the UK) for the better

OrangesandLemonsNow Sat 18-Jun-16 21:09:13

Our own government need to also listen to people's concerns not just play lip service.

If they don't it will hit both main parties at election time.

IoraRua Sat 18-Jun-16 21:13:57

Agreed that there are far more UK people looking to keep EU travel rights than there are Irish looking for UK travel rights. Just look at the surge in applications for Irish passports recently. Travelling to the UK isn't as necessary now as it was historically, when many families sent one member or more over to earn money and send it back.

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected Sat 18-Jun-16 21:20:39

The reported "surge" was actually a relatively tiny amount compaired to the number of people who could be eligible

I'm talking specifically about Irish citizens who have settled in the UK, who are 100% confident that they'll never need to naturalise because there will always be an understanding between Britain and Ireland. I can't get my head around their un shaken certainty, even given the HOs goal post moving antics of recent times. And before anyone says "well if they need to in future they can" - no! If it gets to a point where you need to, it's usually because it has become too late for you to qualify

Jeanniejampots80 Sat 18-Jun-16 21:23:49

I think this is one of the "perception" issues that seem to exit. Part of the whole "the EU needs us more than we need them" thought that seem to exit with sole exiters. While we certainly here in Ireland do rely on the UK for a it at the moment if it becomes economically unviable or too difficult I have no doubt Ire would find the necessary food markets and industry in over EU countries.

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected Sat 18-Jun-16 21:26:17

But that applies to Irish citizens settled in Ireland, it's the Irish citizens settled in England who baffle me with their reluctance to naturalise because they're 100% certain that they'll never need to. All other EU or commonwealth colleagues I have naturalise as soon as they can if they have the option of dual, just so it's there should they need it

IoraRua Sat 18-Jun-16 21:32:27

A 25% application rise as compared to the same period in 2016 is a surge, in my eyes. Anyway this is not the focal point of the thread.
I think for some Irish people it is a source of pride to not nationalise into the UK. It's a small number who would be like that now but I think that sort of thinking would have been quite prevalent among my parents generation. Certainly my grandfather who lived and worked there would have been of that mindset. Shouldn't apply to younger generations though.

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