Dyson for Brexit! Cracking article....

(54 Posts)
Spinflight Sat 11-Jun-16 01:32:52

www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/sir-james-dyson-so-if-we-leave-the-eu-no-one-will-trade-with-us/

Some excerpts...

"“When the Remain campaign tells us no one will trade with us if we leave the EU, sorry, it’s absolute cobblers. Our trade imbalance with Europe is running at nine billion a month and rising. If this trend continues, that is £100bn a year.”

Dyson exports far more to the rest of he world (81 per cent) than Europe (19 per cent). “We’re very pleased with the European market – we’re number one in Germany and France – but it’s small and the real growing and exciting markets are outside Europe.”

He produces another staggering fact. “Sixty per cent of engineering undergraduates at British universities are from outside the EU, and 90 per cent of people doing research in science and engineering at British universities are from outside the EU. And we chuck them out!” He gives a trodden-puppy yelp.

"“It’s just that on this issue I think they’re ( Cameron & Osbourne) fundamentally wrong. I don’t just mean from the business point of view, I mean from the point of view of sovereignty and our whole ability to govern ourselves. We will create more wealth and more jobs by being outside the EU than we will within it and we will be in control of our destiny. And control, I think, is the most important thing in life and business.”

He says what he fears is staying in. “There is no status quo. Europe’s going to change. We all take risks, but they’re very calculated risks. The last thing I would ever want to do is to put myself in somebody else’s hands. So for me the risk is in putting ourselves in the hands of Europe. Not just the other countries, but the Brussels bureaucrats. What I simply can’t understand is why anyone would want to put themselves under their control.”

The Brussels he describes sounds like Franz Kafka adapted by Monty Python. “Really, you wouldn’t believe it.”"

STIDW Sat 11-Jun-16 01:55:14

We will create more wealth and more jobs

But where? Dyson moved 4000 manufacturing jobs from the UK to Malaysia to cut costs.

Spinflight Sat 11-Jun-16 02:09:06

Well you'd have to ask him. He's very much the expert and probably the most successful man in Britain.

Seems from the article that he couldn't hire the engineers due to the EU.

Just5minswithDacre Sat 11-Jun-16 02:19:16

Chuck them out? Post-graduation presumably? 60% is more than I'd have guessed.

STIDW Sat 11-Jun-16 08:10:41

Seems from the article that he couldn't hire the engineers due to the EU.

Manufacturing is in Malaysia, R&D is in the UK. Chartered engineers are postgraduates. It's nothing to do with the EU that universities rely on fees from post graduates from other countries for funding & many of our own students choose not/cannot afford to post graduate courses. Neither is it the fault of the EU that non-EU students cannot stay here once they have graduated.

STIDW Sat 11-Jun-16 08:18:12

He's very much the expert and probably the most successful man in Britain.

Dyson has long been an outer because engineering in the EU was dominated by the Germans & heavy engineering.

"The Institution of Engineering and Technology believes that, on balance, the general advancement of science, engineering and technology in the UK are best served by the continuation of EU membership for the United Kingdom for the following reasons..."

www.theiet.org/policy/eu-2016/eu2016.cfm?type=pdf

engineersthumb Sat 11-Jun-16 08:19:50

As STIW said, this is the man that sacked his UK employees and moved to a cheap labour market in Malaysi. I'm not suprised he backs brexit, anything that weakens employment protection and promises a tax haven status in its future is bound to be good news to him.

Limer Sat 11-Jun-16 08:34:39

That's a great article Spinflight

So for me the risk is in putting ourselves in the hands of Europe. Not just the other countries, but the Brussels bureaucrats. What I simply can’t understand is why anyone would want to put themselves under their control

Hear, hear, Sir James.

engineersthumb Sat 11-Jun-16 09:32:39

Better employment protection, environmental protection and a right to appeal to a higher authority.... terrible!

PumpkinPies38 Sat 11-Jun-16 13:08:54

Great article better than listening to a load of non experts scare mongering and speculating. It's business leaders and large employers like him we should all be listening to.

STIDW Sat 11-Jun-16 13:52:26

better than listening to a load of non experts scare mongering and speculating.

Problem is experts don’t agree. In The Telegraph today there was also a letter from a group of 13 Nobel prize-winning scientists warning leaving the EU poses a "key risk" to British science. Many people feel they don’t know enough to make a decision about the EU & who can blame them if the experts cannot agree.

I don’t always agree with him but Richard Dawkins had a point when he said it was irresponsible calling a referendum on such a complex issues with potentially huge ramifications. We live in a representative democracy, not a “plebiscite democracy” & elect MPs to do their homework & due diligence on complex decisions such as this.

MrsBlackthorn Sat 11-Jun-16 14:20:30

Here's James Dyson calling for fewer employment protections. No wonder he wants out: he wants to be able to pay people less and give them fewer perks. Which he did when he moved thousands of jobs to Malaysia. www.theguardian.com/business/2012/mar/01/james-dyson-employment-laws-factory-leases

exWifebeginsat40 Sat 11-Jun-16 14:31:50

i'm not taking advice on the job market and economy from a man who moved his business wholesale to Malaysia, after spending years banging on about how British his business was.

Spinflight Sat 11-Jun-16 15:38:36

"Great article better than listening to a load of non experts scare mongering and speculating. It's business leaders and large employers like him we should all be listening to."

Quite, I've met him and he's quite a chap.

Very patriotic too, though intensely frustrated at the rules, red tape and restrictions.

I thought his main concerns regarded intellectual property, which is a basket case in the EU, I'm sure he wouldn't have moved his manufacturing outside the EU unless he had to.

""I don't think I can (see an alternative)," he told BBC News Online. "It's been an agonising decision and very much a change of mind.""

""Increasingly in the past two to three years our suppliers are Far East based and not over here," he said.

"And our markets are there too. We're the best selling vacuum cleaner in Australia and New Zealand, we're doing well in Japan and we're about to enter the US. And we see other Far Eastern countries as big markets as well."

He's hardly anti European either, seem to recall he was a very vocal supporter of joining the Euro.

I think he rather sums up the frustrations of many. We should either have engaged willingly and accepted ever closer union as an opportunity to lead, or left.

He also sums up the aspirations of many, frustrated with the stifling bureaucracy of the EU he's proved you can be a world beater.

Spinflight Sat 11-Jun-16 15:41:38

"No wonder he wants out: he wants to be able to pay people less and give them fewer perks. "

I spoke briefly to one of his engineers too - who drove a Maseratti.

Not sure whether he was well off before working for Dyson but I didn't get the impression that Dyson was a stingy employer. Very much the opposite.

JJFW Sat 11-Jun-16 16:05:29

Dyson is a very small employer in the UK and contributes little to UK employment or GDP. If you believe that businesses should be listened to on the EU question then the overwhelming majority of large businesses and exporters are in favour of staying in the EU. They represent hundreds of times the employment and GDP contribution of Dyson. James Dyson himself is very good at promoting himself but not so good on benefiting Britain. He has a particular axe to grind at present because EU testing rules don't favour his vacuum cleaners. In short his contribution to this debate is a load of bollocks.

Spinflight Sat 11-Jun-16 16:43:56

Ah yes, those great British exporters, Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan.

JJFW Sat 11-Jun-16 17:50:38

????
BAE
BT
Airbus
AstraZeneca
BP
Babcock
BASF
to name just a few. and yes we do a lot earn a lot from financial services and not just from US banks.

Spinflight Sat 11-Jun-16 18:46:43

Show me some self made men rather than establishment cronies.

I do not in any way dispute that if you live in Central London and are a member of an exclusive gentleman's club then Brexit might not be in your own personal best interests.

Higher wages, lower but more focussed immigration and an economy more balanced towards the regions probably isn't in the very large employers direct interests either. That's why they fund the remain campaign.

You tell me it's bad for the economy, I say that one person in London earning £1 million plus is worth less than 20 people outside the south east earning half that between them.

JJFW Sat 11-Jun-16 19:16:09

I'm sorry but that doesn't make much sense. Employees in large publicly owned companies value their jobs just as much as those working for some rich individual. Most are average earners. And the taxes paid by those companies fund public services.

Leave campaigners like you should try and listen to the facts and try to understand them. If you want to vote Leave that's up to you unfortunately and a Leave vote will drag everyone else down with you but don't pretend there are good economic reasons for doing so.

Spinflight Sat 11-Jun-16 19:24:34

But I'm not from London, I'm not a banker and I don't run a corporation from Mayfair.

Hell the fat cats and cronies are entitled to their opinions but my vote counts just as much as theirs.

Show me one of the companies you've listed where a massive majority of it's employees back remain and you might have a point.

Merely it's silver spoon fed, white public schooled, chinless old bald tory chairman means nothing to me.

Spinflight Sat 11-Jun-16 19:26:01

( I didn't check, which is wrong of me. One shouldn't prejudge. Are they all old bald tories?)

Millyonthefloss Sat 11-Jun-16 19:31:03

This is my favourite bit from the Dyson article:

"warnings that Britain would be shunned in international markets in the event of a Brexit were “absolute cobblers”.

I have an export business, I couldn't agree more. It's just common sense.

I also agree we need to be able to hire non EU scientists/engineers more easily. We tried to hire a Japanese specialist and just couldn't do it in time for out needs. It's a genuine problem for British businesses atm.

Spinflight Sat 11-Jun-16 19:40:54

Question for JJFW...

Why are those chairmen in favour of dealing with an organisation that stole £5 billion from it's own budget in 2014?

£5 Billion!

This isn't £5 Billion wasted, that figure would be far higher, this is money they can't account for!!!

engineersthumb Sat 11-Jun-16 21:38:17

I'm not privately educated, a Tory or a Londoner. I am an engineer, an ex serviceman, previously a small business owner and have family ties to other EU countries and I consider the likley effects of an exit to be disastrous. Purely from a technical standpoint it's bad, the anonymous "Red Tape" the Looney leavers keep spouting about includes the directives ensuring technical standardisation and upon which many mutual recognition agreements exist beyond the EU. In my own industry the Marine Equipment directive not only simplified the approval process but also ensured that we remained a world leader as the cheap far eastern suppliers had to meet the same standards. Safety has much improved given that we act collectivley through a technical committee so no one nation takes the brunt or being first, the burden on IMO is lessened also. Think now about the Radio Equipment Directive, the low voltage directive, the toy directive and the EMC Directive- these and others ensure basic safety, compatibility and interoperability of almost every gadget and equipment we own. The underpinning harmonised standards are available, well developed and reviewed regularly. We could go it alone but we would still have to meet all of these directives but in addition to our own and with less influence on the EU directives. The bottom line is less consumer protection, less competitive business, shoddy products and years of fudging before just following what the EU does! What you refer to moronicaly as "RedTape" has actually improved our economy, environment and working conditions so please let's stay and fix the issues with the EU from within.

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