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Will DH be able to move with me?

(36 Posts)
Rikkitikkitemper Thu 09-Jun-16 14:35:51

I realise that no one knows what will actually happen to EU citizens in the UK or Brits in the EU.

But I am getting so worried about the possible consequences of Brexit.

I am an EU citizen, DH and DS are Brits, although DS is a dual national. We are now seriously thinking about the fact that our family might not be able to live together legally in the same country if the UK leaves the EU.

Have any of the politicians involved in the debates said anything about what might happen to families like mine?

I have images of having to sell our house for peanuts and flee my home (the UK). The possibility of this happening to countless families across the UK and the EU scares the daylights out of me.

I am sure that EU citizens in the UK will be able to retain the right to remain if they make enough money (how much?). But what about those of us who do not?

Mistigri Thu 09-Jun-16 14:59:46

If you've been in the UK for over 5 years, then the sensible thing to do would be to apply for the permanent right to remain immediately after the referendum if the vote goes the wrong way, and in a year's time, apply for citizenship (if you can afford it - I realise that the cost of applying is a substantial burden for low earners). It will take at least two years for the UK to formally leave the EU, so you you have time.

I'm in a similar position to you although the other way round (British immigrant in Europe). We have sorted out dual citizenship for our kids as that was a relatively simple process, and we'll tackle the naturalisation procedure for me and DH only if there is a leave vote.

Chalalala Thu 09-Jun-16 15:03:40

Rikkitikki, no, to my knowledge politicians haven't taken definite position on the topic. Presumably that's because no one is in a position to promise/threaten anything yet, it would all depend on how the negotiations go, what position Parliament takes, and what compromise is reached.

There is definitely a possibility that British/EU families would have to comply with the same rules as British/non-EU families have to comply with. Depending on your DH's income and your DS's age, it could potentially be a problem.

That being said, I wouldn't worry too much yet, because it will literally take (many) years to reach an agreement, not to mention starting to implement it. So, you have time to see things coming and plan accordingly. Any chance you would have gained permanent residence by then?

Chalalala Thu 09-Jun-16 15:06:29

the sensible thing to do would be to apply for the permanent right to remain immediately after the referendum if the vote goes the wrong way

technically you don't even need to apply for it, you get permanent residence status automatically once you've worked in the UK for 5 years. But it's definitely a good idea to get the piece of paper that states your rights.

Rikkitikkitemper Thu 09-Jun-16 15:20:06

Thanks for the replies and advice!

I am about to apply for permanent residency and DH will look into getting it in my home country (If that is even possible considering that we live in the UK). I have lived and worked in the UK for over 10 years.

On a personal level I am sure we will be able to make it work. But in the worst case scenario I would want to relocate to Ireland instead of moving back to my very Northern home country.

But the fact that more attention has not been paid to what might happen to families like mine- to the homes we own, to our British spouses and children- chocks me.

When EU citizens are discussed in the media it seems as if we are primary portrayed as these movable resource steeling objects. When in fact we are part of British society.

Chalalala Thu 09-Jun-16 15:31:02

If you've been working in the UK for ten (continuous) years then you're most likely fine!

I'm an EU citizen too, and I'm also in shock at how dehumanising the tone of the debate is. I'm not particularly concerned about policy, I think they'll take pragmatic and overall decent decisions. But it's a very strange and disagreeable feeling to be denounced as a resource-draining "other", when you feel you are a fully integrated member of society.

Rikkitikkitemper Thu 09-Jun-16 15:44:03

Thank you Chalalala

The uncertainty is really getting to me and the feeling of being so unwanted.

JinRamen Thu 09-Jun-16 15:58:39

Chalala.. You said ten rather than five years? Is that from something?

If I have ILR will I be ok?

Sorry to hijack, OP, I feel your worries!

Chalalala Thu 09-Jun-16 16:13:48

No no, sorry to worry you, it's definitely only 5 years! I just meant that with her 10 years of work, OP is way beyond the required minimum.

If you're EU you should have PR and not ILR (I think?), but they're effectively both the same thing, you can stay post-Brexit unless something really out there happens in British politics. You never know, but highly unlikely.

I'm sure you'll both be fine (and me!) flowers

JinRamen Thu 09-Jun-16 17:02:23

Ah thank you! I am non-EU. smile

WidowWadman Thu 09-Jun-16 17:19:33

Chalala - are you sure that's still automatic? I thought they changed the rules. My.German friend has to apply for ltr first and can only naturalise after a year - she's going through the process at the moment. When I naturalised 2 years ago I could do it straight away - we have the same circumstances, lived here for the same amount of time, married to Brits etc, but the rules appear to have changed

Chalalala Thu 09-Jun-16 19:00:38

Widow, yes true about having to wait a year after acquiring PR, that's a new requirement

But as far as I know PR is still acquired automatically after 5 year. You have to apply for a card certifying your PR in order to apply for citizenship, but the application is for the card, not for the PR status, which you already hold automatically.

In practice it does make a difference

Chalalala Thu 09-Jun-16 19:07:35

Oops posted too early!

In practice it does make a difference if you have already had your automatic PR status for over one year, you don't have to wait another year once you've received your PR card.

But the moral of the story is: get your PR/ILR card asap, because they can take a long time to process, you'll need it anyway and it'll just make your life easier!

I am have no particular knowledge of immigration law btw, just a complicated situation that meant I spent some time on EEA immigration boards wine

Fleurdelise Thu 09-Jun-16 19:23:00

I am a European citizen with dual citizenship (British included) as my husband is British and I wanted to have the same citizenship as my DCs. You will not be chucked out of the country just because UK comes out of EU, your husband is British therefore the worse that can happen is making you apply for a spouse visa as this is the procedure for non EU spouses currently, followed by ILR and citizenship if you wish.

I wouldn't worry, you are not an economical migrant, they are the ones targeted.

The campaign has been ruthless I have to say, I did feel like a second class citizen just because I was first European before being British. I have a very good paid job, so does DH, we pay all our taxes and don't claim any benefits at all (not even CB). I moved here 15 years ago.

I also feel guilty admitting I am allowed to vote as even though people around me don't say it I know what they are thinking.

Gosh what a long post. smile

GemmaB78 Thu 09-Jun-16 19:29:31

Thanks for this. We have a similar story (myself and DS are British, DP is from EU). He's been here >5 years so is entitled to his PR, though he's of the opinion that if we leave, he's not sure he wants to stay in a country he's not welcome, and I don't blame him. Not sure what we will do long term - we will play the waiting game for now.

JinRamen Thu 09-Jun-16 19:35:36

I don't have an ilr card, just a stamp in my expired passport? <panics> we don't have the money to renew passport of birth country right now and have no plans to travel.

Fleurdelise Thu 09-Jun-16 19:41:43

Jin that's all you need, that is your IRL "visa", does it say on it indefinite leave to remain? Basically if UK comes out of EU and introduces visas for EU citizens you'll have to have your expired passport with you all the time.

WidowWadman Thu 09-Jun-16 19:43:00

Of course applying for a spousal visa would depend on the UK spouse earning over the threshold... I'd definitely look to sort RP/LTR out asap if I didn't have citizenship already.

Immigration rules are difficult to navigate and the home office is the least helpful organisation with the worst customer service ever. I definitely wouldn't rely on randomers' advice that you don't need to worry.

JinRamen Thu 09-Jun-16 19:43:36

I am non eu, but definitely says ilr. Would I still have to carry it all the time? That's a faff! :/

Fleurdelise Thu 09-Jun-16 19:44:19

Ultimately nobody will be put on a train/plane and sent back to their home country. In the mess after a leave vote there will be a while till new EU immigration laws are introduced, signed agreements with those countries so if you haven't got IRL you will be able to apply then if needed. It may not be needed.

JinRamen Thu 09-Jun-16 19:56:58

Ok I have just checked an do do not have to transfer sticker to new passport, just carry both if travelling.

WidowWadman Thu 09-Jun-16 21:03:27

Fleur what makes you so sure that EU migrants wouldn't be treated every bit as shoddy as non EU migrants?

Mistigri Thu 09-Jun-16 21:09:19

Personally I think in practice it is very unlikely that the UK will want to get into a tit for tat fight by deporting EU migrants, and it's probable that some sort of deal will get done. (My own view is that EEA membership is a highly likely outcome).

But it's worth saying that WidowWadman is correct that it's not a done deal, and that if EU migrants were made to comply with the same rules as non-EU migrants then there would certainly be removals. This would be so disastrous politically and economically that I just don't see it happening.

In any case, most people posting on this thread will qualify for naturalisation.

WidowWadman Thu 09-Jun-16 21:51:17

What many people don't realise that only time in which you're exercising treaty rights or have been self-sufficient (which includes health insurance) counts towards your qualifying period for permanent residency.

An EEA citizen who has been here for 20 years, but not worked/been looking for work or self sufficient would not have acquired the relevant qualifying time (5 years) to stay.

WidowWadman Thu 09-Jun-16 21:53:01

Sorry, I meant to apply for residency

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