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Anyone else really worried now?

(1000 Posts)
MrsBlackthorn Tue 07-Jun-16 23:01:18

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f***ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

Spinflight Tue 07-Jun-16 23:10:01

No.

Not worried at all. As Churchill said, if we are ever forced to choose between Europe and the open sea we should choose the sea every time.

Project fear seems to be more of a cause for smirks and derision on the whole so I'm frankly rather amazed that someone takes it all as gospel.

GraceGrape Tue 07-Jun-16 23:17:38

Yep. Until recently I was pretty confident that remain would win, but I'm actually starting to believe we could vote out. I work in a sector that shouldn't be directly affected but I am very fearful for my DSS, about to start university, so would be badly affected by the ensuing instability. The only "out" voters I have met so far are all in their 60s or 70s. Of course they are entitled to their vote, but I can't help but think that they have less at stake as they are mostly out of the jobs market. Even my DM, incredibly anti-EU, has said she won't vote because she thinks the result will affect her children and grandchildren's lives more than hers.

I just hope that the polls favouring "Brexit" will stir some remain voters who otherwise might not have bothered to turn out.

MrsBlackthorn Tue 07-Jun-16 23:17:38

Winston Churchill? The British prime minister who proposed a political union with Europe as far back as 1940?

gu.com/p/4j2va

Anyway, my point is, this has gone beyond "project fear" - my actual life is about to be affected beyond measure. In a couple of years time I could end up with no job because of this. My husband too. And I guess a lot of other people.

This isn't posturing, but my actual company quietly looking at where else it can go to do business (it would appear the Irish are about to pounce on finance firms with tax incentives if Brexit happens).

kitkat1968 Tue 07-Jun-16 23:24:32

Oh shut up with your doom and gloom! Nobody knows what will happen if we Brexit, nobody knows what will happen if we stay.
Why will the NHS be screwed? We will have £350m a week to invest in it!
If we pull out, people are saying Germany will follow suit

kitkat1968 Tue 07-Jun-16 23:26:32

The claims the 'In ' campaign are making now are just ludicrous! We will have worse weather and England will go out in the first round of the footie, will be next! wink

FellOutOfBed2wice Tue 07-Jun-16 23:28:36

Yeah, this is starting to scare me too. Surely we won't vote out though? It just seems nuts to me.

Spinflight Tue 07-Jun-16 23:30:12

Sad to note that you are rather hysterically worried about money, yet show a cold detachment to the plight of women caught in mass sexual assaults on the continent on another thread.

I think you need to rethink your priorities MrsBlackthorn.

MrsBlackthorn Tue 07-Jun-16 23:31:15

"England will go out in the first round of the footie, will be next!"

That's about the only thing which IS pretty much certain in this whole thing sadly. wink

ThinkAboutItTomorrow Tue 07-Jun-16 23:32:34

I share your fear but struggle to think so many people will vote for such a leap into the dark. People usually stick with the known.

I also suspect if we vote leave there would be some renegotiation with the eu and a second referendum.

STIDW Tue 07-Jun-16 23:33:13

As Churchill said, if we are ever forced to choose between Europe and the open sea we should choose the sea every time.

His remark has nothing to do with the EEC/EU. Churchill shouted it to the French leader, General Charles de Gaulle, in a raging row on the eve of the Normandy landings in 1944.

IT was stitched together with sentences he wrote earlier , & claimed he said the whole lot in a speech to Parliament on 11 May 1953;

“We have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not combined. We are interested and associated but not absorbed. If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.”

Hansard is evidence he didn't say that on 11 May 1953. The first 4 sentences were written in an article in an American magazine in 1930 supporting a plan for some sort of European organisation. At that time Churchill thought the UK's future was with the Commonwealth. As the Empire & Commonwealth diminished there is a lot of evidence he changed his mind & supported Britain joining a "kind of United States of Europe." He was referring to sharing a common purpose rather than a centralised state like the US.

Timeforabiscuit Tue 07-Jun-16 23:33:37

Nope, im leaning toward brexit - nothing has any chance of getting better remaining, if the farmers cant see benefit in staying im not arguing with them.

IamNotDarling Tue 07-Jun-16 23:34:45

Do you seriously think that a Tory government wants to invest in the NHS? Do they fuck!

Yes. I'm scared. I'm scared that the fucking ill-informed idiots will rip up this country's future for the sake of nostalgia of the shite old days when Britain thought it had a right to rule the world.

So yeah, I'm scared.

80sMum Tue 07-Jun-16 23:34:55

Why will the NHS be screwed? We will have £350m a week to invest in it!
If we pull out, people are saying Germany will follow suit

For a start, where do you think we will get £350m a week from? Certainly not from savings made from not paying into the EU. We will still be paying in, to secure trade deals.

Secondly, do you consider that the break up of Europe would be a good thing? Why? Are we not stronger and more secure together than apart?

MrsBlackthorn Tue 07-Jun-16 23:35:28

Me, my family, my rights, my job, my home, my future?

Or labelling entire populations of men as probable rapists based on where they're from, and jeopardising everything I have now on a fear that some unspecified men from an unspecified place could come here and rape me? And with no suggestion of how leaving the EU might make me or my family anyway more protected in this regard?

I think I have my priorities quite right, thank you.

IamNotDarling Tue 07-Jun-16 23:37:40

Spinfight Hyperbole much?

GraceGrape Tue 07-Jun-16 23:42:36

Er, I can't speak for the weather or the footie results, but the UK doesn't pay £350 million per week to the EU. The fact-checking website that presented that fact admitted they'd made a mistake and corrected it. It doesn't include the rebate we get or the money we receive directly from the EU. The revised amount is £170million per week. Still as lot of money, I grant you, but the net benefits to our GDP from EU membership have been calculated as much greater than the sum we pay in.

However, the virtual impossibility of calculating the exact costs and benefits, plus misconceptions, mis-reporting and general confusion about the whole thing just show that as discussed on another thread, this really isn't a question that should ever have been put to a public referendum.

Spinflight Tue 07-Jun-16 23:43:03

The commonwealth did diminish, but has since grown at rates that Europe could barely even dream of.

These are the emerging markets, the growing markets that we should tap instead of the moribund and stagnating EU.

As part of the single market (actually a custom's union) we have tarifs imposed upon us for all other worldwide trade yet we still do more business with non EU countries.

I'd choose worldwide trade over the EU every time for the potential and the opportunities in the same way I'd choose ebay over a car boot sale with my neighbours.

Now I have no doubt some bankers and Londoners will have to cut back a bit whilst the traditional trading cities rise but I think they've had it rather too good to the detriment of the rest of the country for some time.

Rebalancing towards the rest of the world future proofs our economy. The risks of staying shackled to the corpse of the EU are obvious and far greater than any fears I have of Brexit.

hownottofuckup Tue 07-Jun-16 23:43:04

It's not £350 million anyway, by the time you factor in the amount we get back from Europe it's less than half that.

PhylumChordata Tue 07-Jun-16 23:45:05

Yes I'm fearful. All our legislation relating to air quality comes from the EU and with an asthmatic dd and a UK government who lobbies to reduce measures and exceeds them anyway I'm deeply worried what this means.

Our clean seas (remember when they were full of raw sewage), clean freshwater and cleaner air comes from EU directives.

UK government has lobbied hard to not comply and is actually being taken to EU court over NO2 emissions. We'll go back to being the 'dirty man of Europe ' we once were.

AndNowItsSeven Tue 07-Jun-16 23:46:41

Me me me what a selfish post, and ill informed. You need to get a grip op.

STIDW Tue 07-Jun-16 23:49:52

We will have £350m a week to invest in it!

No, we won't have anything like that to invest. First of all we have the rebate so our contribution is discounted before the money (£240m/week) is sent to Brussels.

The EU then sends us money back mainly for farming & developing poorer areas. IT also pays funds directly for research & part of UK's commitment to foreign aid. In all probability we will want to continue support for farming, development, foreign aid, research & science. When you take all that into account the net cost of Uk's membership of the EU is more like £120m/week.

That's before accounting benefits difficult to quantify benefits such as Foreign Direct Investment, currently worth £496bn, from the EU & the new & existing jobs it supports.

Kummerspeck Tue 07-Jun-16 23:51:22

I have fears for both eventualities as there are pros and cons to each outcome.
We know a lot of the negatives about Brexit but some people voting "In" seem to think they are voting for life to carry on just as it is now and I don't believe that is a realistic option. Europe is admitting more poorer countries, facing huge challenges with migration and the rise of the right wing, and finances are shaky in several countries which could impact on the whole EU. I think it could be a very different place in 10 years time so the question is would we want to be in a different Europe which could be a lot worse than the one we know

MrsBlackthorn Tue 07-Jun-16 23:52:15

Yes, maybe it is selfish to prioritise my own life, my family and our future. But who here doesn't?

MrsBlackthorn Tue 07-Jun-16 23:55:59

"think it could be a very different place in 10 years time so the question is would we want to be in a different Europe which could be a lot worse than the one we know"

It definitely will be different, either way. But right now we have some certainly, and gave some control over the direction it takes, but getting out is pretty much guaranteed to cause uncertainty in the short term - and quite likely in the long term too. It feels like a bloody massive gamble, and where the outcome is at best the same as we have now and possibly a lot worse.

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