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Major, Carswell and can/could one trust Johnson as he was fired twice for lying?

(6 Posts)
Pangurban1 Tue 07-Jun-16 01:42:10

I think John Major was right about the hypocrisy going on at the moment.

Douglas Carswell on Daily Politics. He was terribly concerned about VAT on domestic fuel. Said the EU prevent lowering it. It is to do with competition or some such. Can't be lowered below 5 percent once it is taxed. Norman Lamont slapped VAT on it in the first place at 8 percent for extra revenue as it had been at zero vat. If he hasn't done this it could still be at zero. Labour lowered it to 5.

Then you look at his voting record on vat. Except once, as a conservative mp, he has repeatedly voted for vat to be raised or voted against it being lowered.

He was going on about elites. Then you see he voted against a tax on bank bonuses. And on twitter the City is a matter of concern.

"On 11 Jan 2012:
Douglas Carswell voted against a series of measures aimed at making energy bills more affordable, including extending benefits, reforming the energy market, reducing VAT on home improvements and reforming the Green Deal scheme."

Is this a Pauline conversion? Or are the hungry pythons in camouflage for the campaign?

As an aside, I think that was JM's statesman moment. He spoke in relation to the issues and called out the bizarre claims of people who had very contrary beliefs in a different life.

Rees-Mong didn't refer to any of the the substantive issues, but in fact played very dirty just trying to slight Major to try to discredit him. Not on the issues mind or how the three amigos really view the nhs. The reference to the knight of the garter not knowing how to behave. As if to say John Major is no better than he should be for a bank clerk. Who mentioned the elites again? Vengeful and bitter would about sum up RM's attack. Major was pointedly being helpful to Boris to not expect loyalty if he is divisive. Johnson doesn't rise above anything. He was sacked twice for lying. Could he seriously be prime minister material? Talking of scoundrels, amazing to see Neil Hamilton being reincarnated as a kipper. He has found his home.

"Remain also cited the Institute for Fiscal Studies’ prediction that a vote to leave would knock a £20bn to £40bn hole in the government’s finances by 2020 and delay a budget surplus by two years. According to remain campaigners, the leave campaign has made £111bn of unfunded spending promises based on leaving the EU."

It is the pot that never empties.

Winterbiscuit Tue 07-Jun-16 13:31:53


Cameron saying he "ruled nothing out" (i.e. saying he could still support "leave") while negotiating with the EU, but meanwhile planning for FTSE 500 companies to be contacted to support "remain".

Corbyn making pro-EU speeches when he has previously been anti-EU.

Osborne giving deliberately misleading figures about household prosperity.

Merkel inviting 1,000,000 refugees to Germany and then changing her mind.

Obama advising us to "remain" when the USA would never do the equivalent themselves.

Juncker's comments that he is in favour of "secret, dark debates" and "when the going gets tough, you have to lie". His authorisation of tax avoidance schemes in Luxembourg, and having to quit as prime minister there following a scandal over the State Secret Service. His claiming ‘the French and Dutch have not voted No’ after they had rejected the European Constitution in referendums.

The EU ostensibly supporting farmers and supposedly believing in human rights, yet simultaneously impoverishing African farmers.

Pangurban1 Tue 07-Jun-16 14:12:28

You haven't addressed one person or issue in relation to the thread.

Douglas for years repeatedly voting for vat increases, while suddenly bemoaning how they can't lower them to less than 5% on domestic fuel.

Bizarre sudden pretend support promises for nhs by people who will dismantle it. Dan Hannan has a particularly interesting youtube with Fox where he said the NHS was a mistake.

And Boris Johnson having been sacked twice for lying and suitability for pm job.

When John Major said the future of the NHS was like a pet hamster in the hands of a hungry python, he forgot to say the python was in camouflage.

Winterbiscuit Tue 07-Jun-16 15:05:04

Your opening sentence is about "hypocrisy". I'm just making it clear that the Reman side has its own hypocrisy which you've omitted.

shitchef Tue 07-Jun-16 15:12:55

I don't really care about the personalities involved, that's why I'm nonplussed when people say 'how can you align yourself with Nigel Farage etc?' I'm not aligning myself with anyone. I'm looking at the effect of the EU on this country (and the rest of Europe/world) now, taking an informed guess at what it may look like in 5-10 years time, deciding that maybe I don't like it and voting on that basis.

Pangurban1 Tue 07-Jun-16 17:08:53

Fair enough point Winter, although John Major was specifically outlining the lies and deceit of the various elements of the Leave campaign.

Yes, Osborne didn't seem to put figures through where he should have on his 4,000 odd. What is odd is that they say he is perfectly right on everything else, as their CofE. Is that called cognitive dissonance. However, the 350 million pw is bonkers. This is travelling around as advertising still.

IFS, of course have just called Gove out on 'misrepresenting' their analysis.

" There is virtual unanimity among economic forecasters that the negative economic effect of leaving the EU would be greater than that. That is why we conclude that leaving the EU would not, as Michael Gove claims we said, leave more money to spend on the NHS. Rather it would leave us spending less on public services, or taxing more, or borrowing more."
Do you think Gove should correct himself?

And I forgot Penny Mordaunt, blatantly lying three times on TV about the veto.

Boris of course doesn't mind lying. Two sackings for the very same. And Neil Hamilton taking cash for questions and taking payments to lobby and influence government. I'd imagine to good of the country is at the very foremost of their thoughts.

If someone lies outright on something that is clearly factually wrong and easy to check, would you trust them to have any integrity on something even a little bit open to interpretation?

Just make you have your health insurance in place before the NHS is dismantled. Tongue in cheek (kind of).

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