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Government found to have been covering up real immigration figures

(20 Posts)
BritBrit Thu 12-May-16 12:55:44

The real figures were released today & the government covered up EU immigration figures. From 2011-2015 1.5 million more EU immigrants came to the UK than the government reported (2.4 million in total when 900,000 was reported). In 2015 800,000 came to the UK when the government reported it as 260,000!

Will this impact Brexit? can you trust the government on immigration ? could even these new figures still be too low?

Chalalala Thu 12-May-16 13:54:11

facinating how you get a completely different take on the same report depending on the source

A claimed “missing million” long-term EU immigrants to Britain have been proved to be a phantom army, according to a special analysis by the Office for National Statistics in the run-up to the EU referendum.

The ONS says short-term migration – EU citizens coming to Britain for less than a year and sometimes for as little as a month – accounts for recent gaps between the official net migration figures for long-term immigrants to Britain and the number of national insurance numbers issued to EU nationals.

BritBrit Thu 12-May-16 15:03:51

Short term migration is still migration they still work in the UK, use the NHS, claim benefits etc. 800,000 coming to the UK in 1 year is totally unsustainable & the fact it is 3 times what the government reported is very worrying over what else they are hiding

titchy Thu 12-May-16 15:14:08

Short term migration is by definition sustainable. By definition they arrive, then go home. They don't arrive, stay and have a nice time with the next batch of short term immigrants whose numbers then cumulate you daft mare.

titchy Thu 12-May-16 15:15:09

Short term migrants can't claim benefits. So you're pissed off about them working? And paying taxes? damn them...

SocialDisaster Thu 12-May-16 15:19:12

I am not bothered about people entering the court try legally and adhering to the law. Some people don't like immigration as it hurts them, I accept that.

I am more bothered about figures being fudged by our government and by some potential Palpadine character running the EU.

0phelia Thu 12-May-16 15:22:30

How do you know they actually go home though. Reliably measuring migration is mission impossible. I am highly dubious of the official figures, based on my own experience in my area (East London), there have been thousands of Eastern Europeans arrive, stay, have babies, don't learn English, use public services... I'm sure if you asked them they'd say "I'm here in holiday!"

dustyanswer Thu 12-May-16 15:22:45

Farmers constantly state that the only way their seasonal produce such as strawberries etc gets picked is because short-term migrant workers are prepared to come & do it. British workers won't as they don't like the pay & conditions & the work is too hard. So if you want to pay more for your food, by all means go ahead and vote Brexit. I'm sure we can just import food from abroad when UK farmers go out of business. hmm

0phelia Thu 12-May-16 15:23:10

Of course figures are fudged.

0phelia Thu 12-May-16 15:25:05

Oh great, another "British people are lazy" Guardian reader dustyanswer

Chalalala Thu 12-May-16 15:27:03

yes, "migration", not "immigration" - they come, then they leave within a year. And they can't claim benefits until they've started working, after a period of 3 months living here... and on average they're younger and healthier than Brits, and less likely to use the NHS... so I don't think it's the big deal you think it is.

(in fact both the Telegraph and the Guardian point out that in 2013/14, EU migrants paid £2.54bn more in income tax and national insurance than they received in benefits)

SocialDisaster Thu 12-May-16 15:36:51

I doubt we will leave the EU. I plan to vote out. I accept there will be changes if we do leave. We do need employers to pay staff a living wage. I suspect there will be a slowdown to the housing market, so more people will live in better conditions too post Britex.

STIDW Thu 12-May-16 16:37:02

The figures released today are not an accurate way of measuring immigration for three reasons;

1) anyone coming here for less than a year is not defined as an immigrant in the migration statistics, but some such people will register for NI

2) not all immigrants will require NI, since they may not be active in the labour market nor seeking to claim benefits

3) there may be timing differences - migrants will not register immediately, sometimes for years or they be here short term & left the country already

In written evidence to the Public administration & Constitutional Affairs Committee Jonathan Portes, the researcher making the Freedom of Information request for the data release, said this;

“It is important to note that this analysis will not in itself produce the “truth” about migration flows from the EU, for the reasons described above. It will however provide an additional and potentially important source of evidence and data. On the basis of this additional evidence, and no doubt other data sources and analysis to which ONS have access, ONS will need to decide whether or not (and if so how) to adjust the methodology by which they produce the IPS-based migration statistics, either retrospectively or in future.”

titchy Thu 12-May-16 16:38:50

They also need to exclude students.... Except T May won't let 'em angry

BombadierFritz Thu 12-May-16 16:43:49

That might be what farmers say, dusty, but my brother and all other british workers were laid off and replaced by polish workers as they are cheaper. They claw back their pay by housing them and deducting transport costs

mollie123 Thu 12-May-16 16:44:44

just for balance
In 1997 net migration (the number of people coming to the UK minus the number leaving) was just 47,000. In the years that followed it rose to well over 200,000 and peaked at 320,000 in 2005. Under the last Labour government (1997-2010) an extra 3.6 million foreign migrants arrived, while one million British citizens left
The additional Eastern European countries who joined the EU are also a factor in the figures since 2010.

Limer Thu 12-May-16 18:53:34

It doesn’t surprise me that the figures are wrong, but I am shocked at quite how wrong they are. My experience matches many others on this thread, I see plenty of EU immigrants in my daily life and the numbers just keep on increasing. No wonder the pressures on public services are so high. No wonder the unemployment rates aren’t dropping. No wonder we have a growing workless underclass with all the associated problems this creates – and yes, it’s easy to scoff at the native Brits and call them lazy and thick, but there’s a whole swathe of our society that will only ever be able to do low-skilled or unskilled work. They’ve been written off as a price worth paying in exchange for unlimited cheap labour from the EU. And the Labour Party is supporting Remain?

I’d like a Remainer to explain to BombadierFritz’s brother why him & his colleagues losing their jobs to Poles is so beneficial to the country. What are they supposed to do? Drop their rates and undercut the Poles? Retrain for new careers? Accept life on the dole?

As for seasonal work like fruit-picking, no reason why workers can’t be brought in for the season via a controlled immigration policy.

SpringingIntoAction Thu 12-May-16 19:27:48

It doesn’t surprise me that the figures are wrong, but I am shocked at quite how wrong they are.

Me too Limer, very shocked.I can see now why Cameron dodn't want to release them. Shame that none of the mainstream broadcasters are leading on this story - it's all about Mark Carney getting political (wonder if that was considered a good day to release bad news).

* And the Labour Party is supporting Remain?*

The Labour party is , the majority of it's natural constituents (some of whom still have Labour posters in the window from the elections) are not - they are LEAVE voters.

As for seasonal work like fruit-picking, no reason why workers can’t be brought in for the season via a controlled immigration policy

Exactly. We have welcomed seasonal labour for decades, if not centuries, long before we joined the EU.

Chartwellhall Thu 12-May-16 21:03:05

Agree with both Limer and Springing. If we have jobs in the uk that we need people from other parts of the world (not just the EU, nothing special about Europeans, other parts of the world just as equal), we can issue work visas. They can come and do the job and at the end of the job leave and return to their country. Count them in, and count them out.

SpringingIntoAction Thu 12-May-16 22:22:29

Beautifully put ChartwellHall - and I enjoyed visiting that place last summer.

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