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The only way to get the EU to take the UK seriously is to vote to leave

(671 Posts)
SpringingIntoAction Mon 09-May-16 19:12:01

Cameron tells us repeatedly that he wants to remain in a reformed EU.

Many others across the political divides also acknowledge the need for the EU to reform itself.

Some say that's why we need to remain in the EU - to change it from within.

I think the EU's refusal to engage with Cameron's plea for his EU reforms and the failure of his 'special deal' to achieve anything like the changes he originally said he wanted, show the EU is unwilling/incapable of reform.

I think the only way to get the EU to start taking our demands for reform seriously is to vote to leave.

They need to start imagining what the EU would be like without one of its largest funders - the UK. We do that by voting to leave.

Winterbiscuit Mon 09-May-16 21:05:49

Hear hear. The UK hasn't been able to reform the EU to any substantial degree over the past decades, or even when our Prime Minister was negotiating and there's the possibility of Brexit, so why would it be any different in the future?

lljkk Mon 09-May-16 21:20:42

Oh bloody hell. It feels like Springing only exists to try to campaign on MN to get people to vote how Springing thinks they should. Even Claig manages to have some other interests.

butteredmuffin Mon 09-May-16 21:20:53

Do you actually do anything besides starting yet more threads in this topic and having the same conversation over and over with the same three or four people? Genuinely interested.

Trills Mon 09-May-16 21:22:10

Don't make threats that you don't intend to follow through on, or where following through on the threat would actually be quite unpleasant for you.

True for 4 year olds and true for the EU.

Limer Mon 09-May-16 21:24:06

I think the EU is doomed to failure before long. Better for the UK to free itself of the EU's shackles now than be stuck in the midst of the fallout.

Other countries will then follow us - look at what's going on in Austria, Netherlands, even Germany - there are growing tensions and conflicts directly fuelled by EU policies. The EU is rapidly losing popularity in many countries.

butteredmuffin Mon 09-May-16 21:28:03

Nah. If we leave, the financial services industry will decamp to Frankfurt, Ireland will scoop up loads of tech firms, Scotland will go independent, and what's left of the U.K. will be in such a state that any other countries which were flirting with the idea of leaving will think again.

Winterbiscuit Mon 09-May-16 21:29:02

Just realised today is "Europe Day".

Limer Mon 09-May-16 21:34:00

Happy Europe Day everyone!

How are we supposed to celebrate? Raise a glass to the future - Europe freed from the useless monolith of the EU?

butteredmuffin Mon 09-May-16 21:37:50

Drinking champagne? (While we can still afford it.)

celeste83 Mon 09-May-16 21:42:15

The EU has simply grown too large too quickly. Too many countries not on the same level economically or culturally with the likes of UK, France, Germany. Its only a matter of time that Greece leave the Euro, or the likes of Spain, Portugal and Italy default. If any of those scenarios happen then it could all unravel quickly. Its all been swept under the carpet for the time being until after the referendum but it will rear its ugly face again down the line.

LineyReborn Mon 09-May-16 21:43:16

So we threaten to leave, vote to leave, but don't actually leave??

Or do we leave, and make the EU reform in its grief, and rejoin??

Genius confused

butteredmuffin Mon 09-May-16 21:45:22

LineyReborn, that certainly seems to be Boris "Brain of Britain" Johnson's plan.

Winterbiscuit Mon 09-May-16 21:47:01

Rejoin? shock

Winterbiscuit Mon 09-May-16 21:50:27

I agree Limer. If it's going to be another 41 years until the next referendum, we'd better take the opportunity to leave while we can!

LineyReborn Mon 09-May-16 21:50:39

Well yes, what else is the point of arguing that only by leaving will we reform the EU to our standards, unless we would think about rejoining?

SocialDisaster Mon 09-May-16 21:54:36

I agree Claig is less intense.

SpringingIntoAction Mon 09-May-16 22:57:37

Err, Europe Day is not about celebrating Europe - it's about celebrating the founders of the EU.

Europe = culture, history, enlightement

EU = pernicious cancer that invades, strangles and kills

SpringingIntoAction Mon 09-May-16 23:00:39

No, what I'm suggesting is that if you want to remain in a reformed EU then you need to vote leave to get the EU to give you a better deal to stay.

They always ask at least twice anyway if they don't like the way you've voted.

I'm for LEAVE regardless, just thought it would be an interesting angle to gain this 'reformed EU'.

butteredmuffin Mon 09-May-16 23:01:38

Has anyone seen this website where you click a button and it generates a Daily Mail headline using a fairly simple algorithm?

www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/

I think Spring must be using a similar site/method to generate her posts.

Winterbiscuit Mon 09-May-16 23:09:55

Well yes, what else is the point of arguing that only by leaving will we reform the EU to our standards, unless we would think about rejoining?

Has anyone been arguing that?

I've seen the argument that the EU is pretty unreformable, as the UK doesn't seemed to have managed to change it so far. So we might as well leave, and make our own decisions and reforms in our own country.

notamummy10 Mon 09-May-16 23:18:21

I saw a post on Facebook which made a good point: before we joined the EU in the 1970s, the country was financially stable (sure there were moments of depression with the world wars but it never got as bad as it is now).

If we leave the EU, the country will have more financial stability through not having to give money to the EU... Also we'll be able to negotiate trade deals with America (our bestie and the leader of the global economy), China and Australia.

Also if there is any chance of saving the NHS from privatisation, it's through leaving.

But as people don't have the same opinion/reasoning, you vote for what's right to you whether it's to leave or remain. smile

Also why does it matter if it's the same person is posting threads about the EU Referendum? OP may be passionate about the subject!

SpringingIntoAction Mon 09-May-16 23:23:57

Also if there is any chance of saving the NHS from privatisation, it's through leaving.

Definitely agree with that notamummuy10. There are 3 ways I can think of that would kill the NHS if we stay in.

Also why does it matter if it's the same person is posting threads about the EU Referendum? OP may be passionate about the subject!

Thank you. I'd say I was quite interested in it. Interested but not absorbed (Churchill).
grin

butteredmuffin Mon 09-May-16 23:24:24

Not sure I follow your drift there. The economy was in a much worse state in the 1970s than it is now, and leaving the EU will not help to protect the NHS from privatisation. Just because people share things on Facebook doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. And Spring most certainly doesn't. She might be "passionate", but she's also spreading confusion by presenting her own opinions and untrue statements as fact.

butteredmuffin Mon 09-May-16 23:26:06

She's also been pretending to have legal qualifications, which is really not on.

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