*scratches head* Why is the Remain campaign so rattled?(463 Posts)
I genuinely don't get it. They have already spent £9 million on leaflets, wheeled out everyone from the IMF to the American President and the telephone polls are putting them in the lead. Admittedly, the campaign feels a bit "meh" in that they are talking about potential losses instead of positive future plans, but they still seem to be doing OK.
So why does it feel like they are panicking? Could it just be the way it's reported?
I don't know. I wonder if they are squewing the polls because literally everyone I know bar a couple of very hardcore 'innies ' wants out? Online polls where you click in or out, show huge leads for leave. I think maybe they feel like their project fear needs an air of urgency dressed up as concern for us if we don't do what we're told.
Really? I don't know anyone but a few loopy 'kippers' who want out I get the feeling the leave campaign are more knicker twisting, which i guess shows how your own perspective skews things.
Maybe people are more likely to tell you their views on it if they know they agree with you?
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Because it is impossible to have a discussion when the other side just keep saying "You are wrong" , "You made that up" and refusing to engage.
Today Gove was on R4. He started out saying the Bremainers' campaign is scaremongering and negative. He then set out the Brexiters' position that remaining in Europe was akin to be a hostage locked in the back of a car hurtling towards a terrible fate. So not at all scaremongering and negative then .
I live in proper Tory country and nearly everyone I talk to is on the fence or out. The only in I know is my granny
The Brexit argument is simplistic (£10 million a day! Our borders!) and easy for thickos to think they understand. The reasons to Bremain are, I think, more complex and difficult to grasp, therefore your average man in the street thinks they're nonsense.
I suspect the fear is that many who don't desperately want to leave or don't care either way will not bother to vote, obviously people in favour of leaving have to vote to change the status quo.
Yes I can only assume they're upping the fear to get people out on the day (especially young people, who as a group are more likely to favour staying in but less likely to actually vote).
Cameron probably never thought they'd win the election and actually have to have a referendum.
I think there's a couple of factors.
The main one being that there an awful lot of people who know in their heart they want to leave, but don't think sentiment is a terribly good reason and are so looking to the 'remain' campaign to convince them there is a rock solid case to stay. Open to persuasion, but they are not finding it. The Cameron 'deal' ought to have reassured them, but it hasn't, because it's not been enacted and they ways in which it could go wrong have been stated. The deal just isn't good enough.
No other arguments are close to being a clincher. There are respectable thinkers on both sides and persuasive cases being put both ways. Most people are not expert, and so are not being persuaded. So sentiment remains they key factor.
And if you were old enough to remember the EEC and the core to be in a common market with free movement of goods, services and people, and that it used to work on that level, there's the factor of the rosy-tinted retroscope. Closer political union is deeply unpopular, a deal that took us case to the common market that (we thought) we voted for would probably be a clear winner. But the 'deal' doesn't offer this.
The ever widening of the EU is troublesome too, I used to be mildly pro EU.
I think that having the PM front the remain campaign is a massive mistake. The concessions he negotiated amounted to nothing. The 9 million spent on the leaflet pissed off everyone I have spoken to.
I'm still undecided (waiting to here something positive from the stay in lot)), but if I had to vote today I would certainly vote out. I voted for the common market in 1975. Whatever way it goes it won't affect me too much. but I don't want my grandchildren's future being decided by unelected bean counters in Strasbourg. Do they still waste millions moving it all to Brussels every few weeks?
Anything wearing a blue rosette gets elected as my MP but at least I know who he is and can track him down in the UK if I need to. MEPs only surface when they want to be elected.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I think staying can be seen as cosmopolitan, interesting, not boring- old fashioned, lots of emotional appeal.
Not bigoted or racist either - what bigger emotional appeal than that for today's generation.
They're probably remembering all of the polls we had around the time of the last general election, which were predicting a much closer result than actually happened.
There are also an awful lot of undecided voters, who could potentially swing the vote if they can be persuaded one way or another.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Some interesting points, especially on the "getting people to vote" front. I suspect if an EU deal similar to what the EEC used to be came up (trade minus political union), there would be a lot of takers.
Nice try, but just because people don't agree with the "Remain" propaganda it doesn't mean it's "more complex and difficult to grasp"
If there was an EEC option I'd vote In. As it is I'm firmly for Leave.
If we vote Remain we're signing up, eventually, to being a region in a federal Europe. I think that's a terrible idea whatever you say about the economic impact so I'm for leaving.
So far we are to stupid to grasp arguments or big old racists. Nice comments from some useful idiots.
I don't think that's true, Manatee - of course the UK has now officially rejected ever closer union, and I think even the French and German eurocrats have realised they're onto a loser there as there are no European populations who want that. They should admit it publicly though.
I agree generally that the eurocrats have done themselves no favours at all with their overweening ambitions for federalism - it has caused so much damage.
Glen I don't agree with the views I described , I wouldn't as I'm voting out [wimk]
Rather I was pointing out that emotional responses can be found everywhere.
We will not be able to influence other members from within. We have tried that from the day we first joined. It was the common agricultural polity then and we were subsidising French farmers (anyone with a couple of chickens) and throwing away vast quantities of perfectly good food.
Does anyone know what our fellow Europeans think of the debate in the UK. Maybe they will be happier if we pull out. I'm sure UK is considered a pita.
The Brexit argument is simplistic (£10 million a day! Our borders!)
No it isn't, and there are many factors apart from money and immigration. Sovereignty, democracy, reclaiming the ability to make independent trade agreements, accepting that Britain can't reform the EU, moving the balance of power to include smaller businesses instead of lobbyists and large corporations, regaining fishing rights, regaining our seat in the World Trade Organisation, being able to make or repeal our own laws without the EU trumping the UK's own long-established legal system, not having our MEPs routinely outvoted (the 19 Eurozone countries have a built-in majority), being further removed from any fall-out from the euro, regaining legal control of tax... to name but a few.
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