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do i stay in my damp cold expensive house or lie through my teeth so my kids can have a nice home??

(332 Posts)
bellarose2011 Mon 26-Nov-12 15:49:44

just looking for some advice really, i am a single mother to 2 DD, 10 months and 2yrs.
we currently live in a 3 bed semi detatched house, it has an old back boiler which makes the gas bills huge yet we are still always freezing. the garden is a vertical hill (literally!) there is mold growing on the kids bedroom wall. the double glazing doesn't work and there is puddles of water on all the windowsills every morning. i hate it!!
in the area i live there is a shortage of social housing and my name is on all council/housing association lists. my only hope is a house from an estate agents. but of course they won't accept DSS.
now i get my housing benefit paid to me so there is no reason i need to disclose this other than it being dishonest. but i know i would be a great tenant, i have never not paid my rent, i'm a clean freak and have no pets.
i have found a perfect house that i can afford and have the application form in front of me, i know i won't get it if i tell the truth. i have a friend who runs her own business and would say i worked for her. i just don't know what to do??
the eatate agents use MARAS, will my bank tell them where my funds come from?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 16:05:06

yet to be specified

Chandon Tue 27-Nov-12 16:11:36

It is fraud though, especially as it includes a forged wage slip.

I am not a lawyer, but I'd say: be careful, it is fraud.

malinois Tue 27-Nov-12 16:12:35

Do it.

Even if you do get found out later on, what sort of daft landlord would evict a tenant who pays their rent on time and is no trouble? Evicting you would be cutting their nose off to spite their face - why would they want the risk of loss of income from having the property unletted and a new, unproven tenant.

malinois Tue 27-Nov-12 16:17:32

*chandon: don't be daft, of course it's not fraud. There is no intention to make a gain or to cause a loss. The police would have no interest at all and tell you it's a straightforward civil breach of contract.

Chandon Tue 27-Nov-12 16:22:34

are you sure?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 16:28:40

malinois a LL has posted on this thread saying they would evict OP in this situation.

dont tell people to take such risks with their lives unless you are willing to house her yourself when it all goes wrong? this is her home we are talking about.

worsestershiresauce Tue 27-Nov-12 17:46:05

That LL was me and yes I would give notice as soon as I could so that she would have to move out.

The issue is breach of trust. If someone lies to me from the outset I have to assume that they will lie about other things. Things like sub-letting or keeping pets without permission. When someone lets a property there is a mutual trust that both parties will abide by the contract terms. The tenant would be the first to squeal if I decided to pick and choose which contract terms I would actually abide by, and happily lie to them upfront.

OP don't lie to your LL. You'll end up without a home and without a reference (or a very poor one). At the moment you have a good reference, and that is worth a lot to a LL.

CajaDeLaMemoria Tue 27-Nov-12 17:53:55

I'm 98% sure that this is actually illegal, and that you could be prosecuted. I believe it is Fraud by Misrepresentation, although I've emailed my tutor to enquire.

We studied a case where the woman had done the same. We then watched the trial at a nearby court. It was an odd case because most people could never predict what would happen to the house, but it's worth remembering that things can happen, and false payslips could be a big problem.

Especially if somehow the benefits people got hold of them. Because then you'd find yourself in an interview under caution, trying to explain why payslips exist but you are still claiming benefits.

maisiejoe123 Tue 27-Nov-12 18:05:53

I dont like the sound of this. You receive housing benefit and have been renting off your Mum so what stops you paying next to nothing and then pocketing the difference? Now you are planning to lie about working....

Perhaps you should think about working as opposed to pulling others into this web of lies.

Sorry, but this sort of thing makes me boiling mad

Violet77 Tue 27-Nov-12 18:14:10

Emaise, a bit harsh. She's living in a damp cold house with her children.
I would also be desoerate for a way out. Millions of people can't find work!

I would be honest, you will be forever nervous otherwise. He might take pity on you.

Can you not make your house wamer, insulated curtains, rugs. Curtain off a lounge and keep that room toasty? Seak to your current ll about him painting anti mould paint in your bedrooms.

Sorry for you.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:15:46

i am in NI and on my application for HB you have to tick a box, (either yes or no) answering whether you are related to the landlord, whether you are or ever were in a relationship with the LL, whether the LL is the parent of any of your children and i think something else to do with relationship to LL. is this not the case in wales and england?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:17:18

and yes your LL has a responsibility to repair the roof if it is causing damp in the house. dont let them away with not doing that.

maisiejoe123 Tue 27-Nov-12 18:22:55

Perhaps I was a bit harsh, however the OP has a 3 bed semi detached house and there are just three of them. She gets the HB straight into her account which is open to abuse.

I know next to nothing about HB but what stops someone taking the housing benefit and spending it on something else.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:29:37

having rent to pay stops it maisie. i would have thought that was obvious.

plantsitter Tue 27-Nov-12 18:32:03

'I know next to nothing about HB'... evidently maisiejoe - sounds to me like the OP was paying her mum rent so that would be covered wouldn't it? Also, the thing that stops people taking the housing benefit and spending it on something else is a) having to show the DSS the rental agreement and b) NEEDING THE MONEY FOR A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS.

OP I wouldn't have an ethical problem with this but I wouldn't do it either - too risky, and too difficult to relax in the new house. I would try to talk to the landlord direct.

maisiejoe123 Tue 27-Nov-12 18:34:46

Sorry, but it isnt obvious. She was renting from her Mum at one point. Clearly her HB allows her to rent a 3 bed semi (something a lot of people will have to wait a long time to get to). And she is also thinking of lying, drawing others into her situation and potentially getting a number of people in trouble.

maisiejoe123 Tue 27-Nov-12 18:36:50

But the OP said there were never any checks done when she was renting from her Mum hence her idea to pretend she was working....

FrameyMcFrame Tue 27-Nov-12 18:39:42

baabaapinksheep, what is the clause you speak of in their mortgage?

Graceparkhill Tue 27-Nov-12 18:42:34

My advice would be to firstly try and improve your current house. I have no expertise outside the Scottish system but recommend you contact
Shelter Www.
For some advice on your current property and how to get the landlord to improve and maintain the property .

Secondly and I am saying this very loudly please do not lie to the landlord of the new property.

If his lender allows him to accept tenants on benefits then you need to convince him you are reliable, trustworthy and a good long term tenant.

I would speak to him and if possible provide character references from people who know you. Go direct to him( or her) not through the agent.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:46:02

well i know in NI that regular checks are carried out. i was constantly having to produce my last 2 months banks statements and X amount of payslips plus tax credit award. my employer regularly had to fill in and sign a certificate of employment incuding the hours i worked and the wage i was paid for this work. as far as the LL was concerned they had to fill in part of the application detailing the type of house, number of rooms, facilities included in the rental price, the age of the house, the rental and rates cost, confirm that they had some sort of building guarantee and lots of other stuff.

FrameyMcFrame Tue 27-Nov-12 18:47:49

Op do it. People on benefits would never get homes in the private rental sector if they took any notice of 'no DHSS' in ads. And then where would we be as there is fuck all social housing.
It is not fraud, are you on tax credits or income support? Tax credits aren't actually administered by the DHSS so screw them. It's discrimination anyway.

I have been where you are now as a single parent with babies and no way of getting back in to work. Do what you need to protect your kids and take no notice of the baying mob...
Things will improve as they get older and you're more able to get out and find work and get back in to normal life. I've got a mortgage and full time job and I never thought I'd get those things.
Hope you get your new house op

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:54:38

"Do what you need to protect your kids "

framey by lying to a LL to get a house OP could actually be putting her dcs in a very vulnerable position. far moreso than they are now! i cant believe you (and the others encouraging this) are actully telling someone to take such a massive risk. if she does this and gets the 'wrong' LL (in other words one who doesn't just shrug their shoulders and ignore it) she could end up making her children homeless. never mind that it could cause problems for the LL and the friend who is pretending to employ her and forging payslips. OP could also end up facing a benefit cut and having to pay loads back if the benefits agency question why she was 'working' but not declaring it to them.

you are giving really shit advice TBH.

OP protect yourself and your DCs. lying to secure a home is not protecting them. it's making them more vulnerable. you already know how hard it is to find a house. being found out on this would make it ten times harder.

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 18:56:40

framey she is in receipt of housing benefit. that comes from DHSS so she cant exactly 'screw them' hmm

Graceparkhill Tue 27-Nov-12 19:07:19

Just for clarity- Housing Benefit only applies to tenants of social landlords( council/ housing association)

Private sector tenants can apply for Local Housing Allowance which is administered by the local council.

LHA rates are set and publicised on council websites. If landlord charges above the LHA rate then the tenant can pay a top up( if this is affordable )
OP - do you know if new landlord's rent is within LHA limits?

DudeIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 27-Nov-12 19:10:07

not in NI grace. HB is paid to private rental tenants here. OP is in wales. not sure what the ruels are there though.

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