Skip to main content
Skip to main navigation
Skip to talk navigation

Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Saved Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Flip

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Work

Advice on childcare and employer

18 replies

jeananddolly · 31/05/2010 20:41

I wonder if anyone can help me with this concern.

If your childcare is temporarily unavailable (e.g. nanny sick, nursery closed) and you have no other option to stay at home and look after your child short term, what are your employer's obligations? Must you take this as annual leave? Is it unpaid? Is it reasonable to request work from home? And is it reasonable of the employer to request that in such an event you must have alternative childcare in place?

Hypothetically you understand

OP posts:

Report

Irons · 31/05/2010 21:45

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_10026555

This should help.

SlummyMummyAndProud · 31/05/2010 21:50

Hi there.
It really all depends on your company's family policy. In my experience your company is under no obligation to pay you for time off. I would check with your HR department on what their policy is. If it is a big company they should have quite reasonable family policies in regards to urgent family time.
Within my company (big-ish financial services company) any time taken off for childcare issues is classed as urgent family leave and is unpaid but you do have the option to take this as part of your annual leave entitlement.
Hope this helps

jeananddolly · 31/05/2010 22:00

Interesting...flexible working contract says in event of emergencies I can work from home but doesn't say anything more specific than that.

I will check with HR. Thanks.

OP posts:

ClassWarrior · 01/06/2010 00:52

I believe the company can't force you to take it out of your holiday entitlement but you are not entitled to be paid for the time off.

You have the right to take time off to deal with childcare emergency and arrange alternatives if the situation is likely to last more than avery short time. But there is no definition of what would be regarded as the maximum amount of time which should be allowed off.

A guide I have heard is that you would be entitled to a day or two off to deal with a child who is sent home from school sick. However you would not be entitled to take a whole two weeks off to look after a child with chickenpox. Not sure where this came from, though.

jeananddolly · 02/06/2010 21:24

Thanks class warrior.

I've just learned that my company (a BIG company - US based) has emergency creches in its US offices so maybe that's why it was mentioned. Anyone any idea if we have such a thing over here? Sounds ghastly but would be interesting to find out...

OP posts:

DancingHippoOnAcid · 03/06/2010 00:30

Never heard of such things being run by UK employers, jean.

Would not be of much use if DC is sick, though, as no creche would accept a sick child.

DSM · 03/06/2010 00:47

Slight hijack, but along the same lines and been meaning to post this for a while..

If I didn't turn up to work in the morning, the business wouldn't open. If I was in a situation where I couldn't work, but not an out-and-out emergency (eg, no childcare), and they sacked me, would that be legal?

DancingHippoOnAcid · 03/06/2010 08:21

Can't see how that would be legal, if you had to take time off for a legitimate childcare issue as described above.

The fact that your employer has put in no back up procedures to cope if you are unavailable is not down to you.

What would they do if you are sick - would they sack you for that?

DSM · 03/06/2010 10:16

Well, if I was sick, someone would cover me, but me being sick is a 'proper' reason not to be at work, whilst no childcare is solveable. This is how I imagine they would see it.

There would be backup, my boss would have to work for me, but then by the time it happened (ie, if I called him in the morning) the business would open late, meaning loss of income for them. Also then boss would have to work a 17 hour day..

I just worry that they wouldn't see it as a legitamite reason..

DancingHippoOnAcid · 03/06/2010 17:48

It may be solveable medium term, but if you REALLY can't make alternative arrangements same day then you need to take time off, and you are entitled to it.

I am sure you would go in anyway if you could sort out an alternative. The law allowing unpaid time off for emergency childcare is meant to make sure you can't get sacked if you just cannot find alternative childcare for that day.

It is meant to avoid situations where mothers were being forced to leave small children alone in the house while they went into work due to childcare breakdown, because they were scared of getting the sack.

It's only meant for emergencies, but surely if they can make arrangements for sick cover they can cover this?

They have to by law.

DSM · 03/06/2010 18:36

I could, but if my ds is sick and I simply would prefer to stay at home with him myself rather tan find childcare, would this be acceptable? I'm talking a day or two.

Obviously, If I out and out have no childcare, I can't go to work, simple, and they'd just have to deal with it. Though I can't imagine that it would go down too well, having to open late and work a double shift..

jeananddolly · 03/06/2010 21:55

Hi DSM - have you clicked Irons' link...that was quite useful...

OP posts:

jeananddolly · 03/06/2010 21:56

Thanks dancing hippo - I meant if non-availability of childcare rather than DC sick but thanks. All useful info.

OP posts:

PickUpYourPants · 03/06/2010 22:07

Just a short post from the Employer perspective. If your child is sick or there is a problem with your childcare as this link above shows you are entitled to take a reasonable amount of time off to deal with this. In my mind/experience that is usually 1 day. If your child has a minor illness etc then generally you would be expected to arrange for someone else to take care of them if possible. This is one of the pitfalls of parenthood, certainly most companies would not pay you if you take emergency time off like this.
One method I have seen used, although I couldn't advocate this, is if your company has a generous sick policy to call in and say that it is you that is unwell. You will get paid sick and no 'black' marks next to your name for taking time off. Not sure that this is the correct way to do it but I have seen at review time those with an average sick record having no comments/adverse reactions whereas those with a few emergency days being questioned for commitment etc.

DancingHippoOnAcid · 04/06/2010 08:14

PickUp - yes, i would agree a day or so is usually what would be expected. And if a suitable person is available to look after your DC if they have a minor illness then they should be used - but you should not be forced to leave a sick child with a stranger (to them). I left my 10m old with a non-working friend when he had chickenpox for 2 weeks, but he knew her well and I knew he would not be distressed. No formal childcare will look after a sick child, except a nanny.

But what do you do if your child has chickenpox, you have absolutely no friends or family who can look after them, and obviously a CM or nursery will not take them? Only option left is temporary nanny, but the cost of one is well beyond the means of working mums. The law is silent on this and it is still a problem we have to face.

I am alarmed that at your company you are putting "black marks" against people for using their legal right to take unpaid time off to care for sick children, within the rules. This could get you into trouble as it is discriminatory - you are treating those who take emergency child days different to those who take sick days.

In effect, you are giving your staff no alternative but to lie to you. It is also more expensive for you as you have to pay sick pay when people ring in sick, but emergency parental days off are unpaid. You are going back to the bad old days before the law on allowing emergency days was brought in. A very bad policy and it could easily get your company in trouble.

DancingHippoOnAcid · 04/06/2010 08:18

Another thing, discriminating against those who take emergency parental leave will be held as sex discrimination as it disproportionately affects women as they are usually the primary childcarers. And there is no cap on the penalties a tribunal can levy for this (I think this is still the case).

For the protection of your company, you really should have a good look at your policy ASAP.

PickUpYourPants · 04/06/2010 17:55

Dancing - you have misread my post, I do not advocate people taking sick leave instead of emergency leave, I also do not discriminate. However as I said I have seen it done.

DancingHippoOnAcid · 04/06/2010 18:23

Sorry, thought you were talking about what happens at your company. Too much speed reading.

As I take it you are talking about company's you have been with previously please apply said comments to them, perhaps have a word in their ears if you are still in contact with them

Flip

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.