Flexible working rejected - Help - what to do next

[climbingeverest]

Hi All flexible working Mn's,

I requested to return to work 4 days a week, with one day working from home for 3 months only, until my son was a year old in January. He was born premature, and feel that a day extra with him, would benefit him. Thereafter, I requested that I would return to work 5 days a week, with one day working from home.
I've just had this request rejected, on grounds that the team structure does not allow, it will be difficult for cover purposes etc.. and they have come up with 3 days in the office, and 2 days working from home for the first 3 months, thereafter 4 days in the office, and one day working from home. After 6 months, they want me to return to work full time.
Besided the cost of childcare for an extra day, so we're looking at £200 a month, just think this is unfair! They have recently changed their policies, with all the current climate etc, and the business need etc.. doesn't allow it...all HR crap. I feel that it's unfair, as there are mothers already within the company that returned to work a few months ago, and work 3 days a week(obviously with a pay cut). And that there is another woman within the team that has within her contract that she can work 2 days from home to be there to pick up her son from school(she has a fit and healthy 9 year old son!)and she has been doing this for the past 3 years.
All I'm asking for is 3 months of working 4 days a week (with one of these days working from home), and one day to have quality time with my little boy.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[climbingeverest]

Anyone in the same situation? Or had the same situation?

[HappyMummyOfOne]

Maybe your employer has concerns that you can work and look after a child at the same time. Its not usually feasible to expect to do both to save on childcare fees.

If you want the extra time with your son, can you not suggest a job share and drop a couple of days that way?

[flowerybeanbag]

Tbh I think your employer has come up with a reasonable compromise. It's only the first three months that doesn't match up with what you want. You are entitled to request flexible working but a request is for a permanent change to your terms and conditions, not temporary arrangements for short periods of time.

If you are happy to return to work full time, as you say you are from 3 months in, they need to proceed on that basis in terms of cover, business planning and other arrangements. If you wanted to work 3 days a week permanently, for example, they could recruit someone for 2 days or make long term arrangements to cover the rest of your job. But an arrangement where you will be working part time for 3 months doesn't enable them to cover the extra time properly. And rejecting that proposal isn't 'HR crap', it's sensible business planning. A straightforward request to work 3 days a week permanently would be much easier to accommodate and much more likely to be agreed.

I don't think your comparisons with other arrangements at your workplace are relevant, as these are presumably long term ongoing arrangements, rather than temporary disruptions.

It sounds to me as though given they are unable to agree to your exact request, they are trying to be as flexible as they can be in the circumstances.

Is a request to go part time permanently not an option for you?

[RibenaBerry]

Climbing - I don't want to sound like we're ganging up on you, but I agree with the things both Happy and Flowery have said.

Working from home is not instead of childcare. If that was your plan, that alone is a reason to refuse a request.

Also, Flowery is right. These requests are for permanent changes and employers can plan round those.

One thing I didn't quite understand is how you wanted to work once you went back to full time. Did you want five days a week, with one day from home and they offered five days in the office (to kick in after six months). Assuming you put childcare in place, this is the bit of the request I would focus on in any appeal as a single day a week from home is not too hard to accomodate for most jobs (especially if the person is full time).

[NorthernLurker]

Sorry but on the face of it I think they've been fair enough - the request as you've framed it would be impossible to cover - how did you think they would cover it? Presumably you had some reasoning for that - can you share that with us because that might be useful.

[climbingeverest]

there is another woman within the team that could cover, she has already had a long term agreement whereby she works from home twice a week.
I put in my request abt 1.5 months ago, and its taken them that long to respond. I've already booked my childcare, and budgeted for this.

flowerybeanbag - are you in HR? first 3 months, is vital time with my son,

ribena, yes after 6 months, after going back full time,would like to work from home 1 day a week

no, financially, i cannot go part time.

do any of you work from home, with your child with you?

[Ginni]

I'm sure i'd read somewhere that as an employee it's illegal to be providing childcare whilst working from home, I can't remember the reasons - anybody?

[climbingeverest]

really? does anyone know of this?

[Bubble99]

How will you be able to work from home if you're looking after your baby?

[flowerybeanbag]

Yes I am in HR. Why?

Are you proposing to be working while looking after your child? That would be an immediate absolutely not from me.

[climbingeverest]

i know some people manage this with agreement with their bosses. but the thing is, i've alreay arranged childcare that can only do 4 days a week. and financially budgeted for this.

Flowerybeanbag - you sound like you're in HR, how can I broach this subject. Maybe accommodate working 2 days from home, but for the first 3 months, one of these days, my child will be with me?

[Bubble99]

Is your work the sort that can be done at any time (ie. projects that you can work on at night, with no need to email or phone people) -or something that requires you to be in contact with people during the day?

If contact is required then no, I don't see how you will be able to do your job if your child needs your attention at the same time.

[kafka]

Could you and possibly your partner work compressed hours? and that way save on your childcare bill? E.g. if you both worked a nine day fortnight alternately you could would save one day a week on your bill?

[NorthernLurker]

just read your op again and you seem to be proposing to work from home and care for your son at one and the same time. The purpose of working from home is not to allow you to do two jobs at once! If you are working you can be spending time with him, if you are with him you can't be working. I do realise how difficult these calculations are but I know of no way that anyone can work full time and not pay full time childcare. (Unless as others have suggested - you can work in the evenings and so forth) What childcare were you planning to use? Does your employer offer childcare vouchers - have you factored savings from this in to your calculations? The problem that you've got is I think that you've worked out your plans based on what you wanted to happen, not what was likely to happen. Your employers have suggested a compromise and have sound business reasons for refusing your request so I think all you can do is change your plan. Do you have to go back in January - do you have any Annual Leave to use up or can you extend your maternity leave to allow more time with your son?

[climbingeverest]

Kafka, thats not possible with my dh.

no reason Flowery, it just sounds like you are. Why is it a not for you? Or is this an HR policy?

[NorthernLurker]

climbingeverest - HR are not the enemy! (I don't work for them btw) The purpose of HR is to work for the employer yes but also to have regard to the welfare of the employee. (flowery - hope thats an ok definition with you) It isn't possible to do two full time jobs at one and the same time and caring for a 9 month old baby and doing a full days work can't realistically be combined long term. Thats not to say you can't do a bit of reading, write up notes, send a few e-mails etc from home in an emergency or whatever but you can't work from home and care in the home at the same time. I think working from home arrangements benefit working parents when you are able to do the school run etc then fit your work into the rest of the day o it would work for you if you needed to go to nursery or childminder to do a breastfeed or needed to express milk and preferred to do so at home. Those are not exhaustive examples btw. My understanding is working from home is not a get out of childcare free card - it's a tool to help you but at the end of the day being a working parent costs.

[RibenaBerry]

Climbing - Flowery is in HR and I'm in legal. I know from previous posts that for both of us it would be an absolute no. You can't do two jobs at once is the most simple reason to 'why not'. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh. Northern Lurker put it better...

[HappyMummyOfOne]

I think you have lost sight of your employers point of view and perhaps you need to look at that to work things out. They have offered a compromise which is good of them.

Expecting somebody else in the office to cover your workload will not go down well. Plus, like flowery said, expecting to work and look after a child is a big no. They are paying you to do a job not look after your child.

If you really want the time off with your child you need to accept that part time is the way to go.

Your financial commitments and childcare issues are not your employers concern.

[AtheneNoctua]

I think your employer is well within his/her rights to turn down your request. Flexible working is not intended to allow you to work and care for your children at the same time. I appreciate that the cost of childcare is crippling, but your employer is not in any way obligated to help you reduce the bill.

[climbingeverest]

thks for all your advice. One of the big reasoning, is that it's taken them nearly 1.5 months to reject my request. In the meantime, I've had to sort out childcare, which I've already done, on the a 4 day basis. As requests to work partime flexibly for a few months, has already been granted within the workplace amongst other employees... but now with times like this (credit crunch..job losses etc...) they are in the progress of changing the policy to fit work. So, I'm finding it a bit unfair, that those mum's that already have this in place. And because of change, I will not.

[NorthernLurker]

If those other women have an arrangement by which they are the full time carers for their children on days they are 'wroking from home' then I would say they have an arrangement which isn't fair on them, the child or your employer and frankly you want no part of that. Can you tell us about your childcare choice - we may be able to suggest things that can help?

[climbingeverest]

I've already agreed and paid a retainer with a childminder for 4 days a week for the first 3 months. She cannot do 5 days a week until after 3 months too. We have no family here to look after my lo.

[AtheneNoctua]

When are you due to start back at work? I do think a 1.5 month turnaround on getting back to you is a violation of the procedure -- is it not?

Assuming you are married / have partner, if you arrange childcare so that you do dro poffs and he does pick ups you can often juggle it so the child spends less time in childcare and you might be able to save some money that way.

[MascaraOHara]

Personally I think they should scrap flexible working if people continue to think they can get away with looking after their kid and working at the same time.

I think there shoudl be spot checks for people who work from hom under flexible working, although I'm quite aware this isn't feasible.

Unfortunately too many people taking advantage of flexible working and that puts extra strain on thei employer and their colleagues, eam while they get a paid day off a week.

[climbingeverest]

I was due to start work from this past week November, but have been off ill, with baby at home.
the problem is not having childcare for that 1 day. I read somewhere that the employee should take 28days to respond back. To I hve any grounds, as they took so long to reject my request?