Does anyone know when you are considered a permanent employee?

[M1SSUNDERSTOOD]

I only ask as I always thought after 2 years you had to be let go or get a permanent contract. However on the Direct gov website it says after 4 years!

[RamblingRosa]

Hello, You don't become permanent after 2 years but you do become entitled to most of the same employment rights as permanent employees. In fact, I think a lot of these rights kick in after one year. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I'm wrong. They certainly don't have to get rid of you after 2 years. Hope that helps.

[flowerybeanbag]

It's 4 years. You can't be treated less favourably as a fixed term employee than a permanent employee which means in terms of employment rights most apply after a year.

In terms of redundancy payments, this applies after 2 years, the same as permanent staff. Perhaps that's what you were thinking of?

[MamaChris]

I don't think you ever become a permanent employee - I have over 5 years on 3 contracts at same place. But like flowery says, I am entitled to exactly same rights as permanent (including redundancy if they fail to renew my contract due to lack of money etc), but not a permanent contract

[flowerybeanbag]

MamaChris that's not correct. In terms of the same rights, you get those much sooner, but you must be considered permanent if the contract is renewed after 4 years. I've cut and pasted BERR guidance below:

'If an employee has a fixed-term contract renewed or extended beyond the statutory limit (or beyond the limit agreed in any applicable collective or workforce agreement), the contract will be regarded as one of indefinite duration.

In practice this will mean that the clause in the last contract that limits the duration of the contract will be invalid from the point at which the fixed-term employee has reached four years? continuous service. The fixed-term employee can write to their employer requesting written confirmation that the contract is to be regarded as a permanent. Once the employee?s contract is regarded as permanent, statutory minimum notice periods will apply, unless longer periods are contractually agreed. See Rights to notice and reasons for dismissal.

An employee whose contract is renewed as a fixed-term contract, or re-engaged under a fixed-term contract, after the 4-year period has the right to ask the employer in writing for a written statement confirming that he or she is now a permanent employee. The employer must produce the statement within 21 days of the request and if the employer maintains that the employee is still fixed-term, the reasons for this must be explained. The statement may be used at an employment tribunal hearing concerning a complaint under the Regulations.'

[MamaChris]

really? so I should have a permanent contract now (if I asked)? they don't make that plain in the advice to contract staff where I work (a university, where more academics are on renewable fixed term contracts afaik). Interesting... thanks!

[M1SSUNDERSTOOD]

Thanks for clearing that up. What are the BERR guidelines as I have never heard of them?

[flowerybeanbag]

BERR - dept for Business Enterprise and Regulatory Reform. There are some guidelines on there about the legislation around fixed term employees, that's what I was quoting from.