They are claiming this is not a demotion

[WritingGnome]

I started in a new role in 2019 managing a team. A few months back some of us were furloughed. Now I’ve returned and been told the organisation is restructuring (which has included some redundancies) and as such I now have a new job title with fewer responsibilities. Pay and hours the same.

My previous role still exists – this is now being filled by the person who was previously in a more senior role to me. So doing some research is looks like I’ve been ‘bumped’ and essentially made redundant (bumping seems to be the one circumstance where it’s ok to keep the role going and make the original job holder redundant from the role).

However, the company are claiming that my role hasn’t changed at all – just the title. They have sent a description for my original role, which now includes some additional responsibilities, and asked me to let them know if it’s the same or different to what I was doing. During my time in the role I have asked on multiple occasions for a clear job description with a list of duties and responsibilities for the role, yet never been given one. As such the specific duties and expectations for my role were always a bit hazy and ill-defined. Since I started the original role the department also spent a large chunk of time working on a very specific one-off project for the company which took over a lot of everyday duties. I have always performed well with everything they’ve asked me to do.

It seems as though they don’t want to admit I am being put in a different role. Whilst a lot of it is the same, it is fewer responsibilities, a less senior job title, and so far as I can tell a clear demotion. I have asked them to clarify if I have been made redundant or removed from the previous role for some other reason and they claim that I’m in the same role, just with a different title. They are pushing for me to sign the documents agreeing to the change. AIBU in thinking this does count as a new role? Where do I stand here?

[JustSleepAlready]

I think your employer can change your role as they please. I think that they have reshuffled staff, it sounds like not just your position changed. If you never had clear written job role before, it would be difficult to prove you have been ‘demoted’. I would suggest contacting ACAS in the first instance to get some guidance.

[chesteroo]

Less work/responsibility for the same money. What's your issue?

[Sosigsandwich]

Does it really matter if you're paid the same?!

[HedgleyTheHedgehog]

@chesteroo

Less work/responsibility for the same money. What's your issue?

Sounds like a win/win to me

[Alsohuman]

@chesteroo

Less work/responsibility for the same money. What's your issue?

It’s your birthday!

[Crazycrazylady]

Given they've had a restructure and redundancies, they are entitled to move existing responsibilities around to cover the role of the people who've been made redundant. Your pay and conditions have not changed. Given that your role was ill defined anyway, I don't think you have anywhere to go with this.

[Therewereroses]

@chesteroo

Less work/responsibility for the same money. What's your issue?

Less senior job title/experience for future if she wishes to move on/up.

[Therewereroses]

OP will you still be managing the same team?

[WritingGnome]

Exactly @Therewereroses

[Therewereroses]

Also, some people enjoy responsibility and being busy. I personally hate being bored and have left jobs because of it.

[Therewereroses]

Another issue I would have would be if my management level within the company had moved down a notch. Are you now a 'team leader'/'supervisor' and the other person who has also been moved down a notch taking over the management side?

If everyone in the company has moved down and there is no change to who reports to you and such, it might not be so bad. I'd discuss it with them, just as a sort of 'I just have a couple of questions' thing.

[WritingGnome]

@Therewereroses the new role is as a senior member of the same team. I will still be delegating to the people within the team but am no longer head of that team. The person who has moved into that role was already the person I report directly to. They have moved down from their previous role.

Im not necessarily looking to ‘fight’ the change, but just want to be clear where I stand and what the implications are before signing anything. I’m uneasy that they are trying to claim my role hadn’t changed in any fundamental way when clearly it has. It feels like they are not going about things in a very transparent way.

[RunHobbitRun]

This happened to what was my old management team. They decided to do away with their layer as a management layer full stop so now I'm reporting to the grade above them, their jobs remained in the company but instead of being XX manager they are now XX specialist. All above board because there was only a slight removal of responsibility rather than a universal role change.

They were universally pissed off because whilst the T&Cs and pay remained the same on paper they'd been demoted so instead of trying for progression as a 'manager' they'd be trying as a 'specialist'.

All of them have since moved on, not remotely happy with the change.

[Therewereroses]

but am no longer head of that team.

That's a fair old demotion alright, but I don't know how you'd approach it. As suggested by a PP, ACAS and then speak to them before signing.

[DontBiteTheBoobThatFeedsYou]

Those focusing on the money and less responsibility, clearly aren't into progression.

It absolutely does matter and it would bother me greatly.

I'd always want to be in a "move up or move out" situation.

As awful as this sounds, I think at this point I'd move out.
How easy is it to do that in your field?

[Therewereroses]

A very valid way to approach it would be to say that A. you really enjoyed the people management side of your role and are disappointed to be losing that and B. that in the long term you would like to progress 'within the company' and feel that this change has effectively altered the progression you may be able to make in the future as you are now in a slightly less senior role.

[peak2021]

I think it is a demotion, but same salary etc. If you are early on in your career and you think not being able to demonstrate certain responsibilities will hinder future prospects, worth having a discussion. If you are only a few years before retirement, then take with both arms.

[Therewereroses]

I'm guessing you're not quite the 2 years there yet OP? For that reason alone, I would be very gentle when approaching them.
Or, ship on out now while you still have your old job title/responsibilities to show on your CV.

[DontBiteTheBoobThatFeedsYou]

Or, ship on out now while you still have your old job title/responsibilities to show on your CV.

That was exactly my thinking.

[PhilCornwall1]

So you've kept the same salary and still have a job, where others have been made redundant. Whilst this can be seen as a demotion, its a heck of a lot less of a demotion than being made redundant.

In the current climate, I'd be getting on and not making waves and potentially marking your card. I saw two people "made redundant" last year with covid being the excuse. In reality, it was an excuse to get them out as waves had been made by them once too often.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

If you still want to be a team manager can you have a chat to whoever your existing manager is and ask them? It’s possible post-Covid has highlighted an opportunity to do away with a few unnecessary layers of management but you shouldn’t have to accept a material change to your role just because of that.

[HunterHearstHelmsley]

When did you start? Have you been there for 2 years yet?

[WritingGnome]

FYI - this was implemented while I was furloughed, and sprung upon me when I came back yesterday.

[WritingGnome]

Less than 2 years

[GeronimoHate]

I'd try and nudge them on the job title - think of one you'd be happy with in the circumstances...if you can't start looking for a new job.