Holiday issue, this can't be right surely?

[OneofPansPeople]

Work for a charity, there are 4 of us in this branch who all do part time, none of us have worked there long but I am the newest.
We have been told that going forward that no holiday requests will be sanctioned until cover is in place, however no over time will be paid to the person covering, we will have to shift swap to fill gaps thus working extra in order to get a holiday. (Hope I've explained that properly)
I appear to be the only person who has raised an eyebrow in a wtf type of fashion.

[FieldOverFence]

Have I understood that right, you basically have to work extra and cover someone else's holiday, so that someone will cover yours ? That can't be right, how many days PTO are specified in your contract ?

[OneofPansPeople]

Yes you've understood right.
I'm going to have to dig out my contract, I only work 3 days/21 hours a week.

[titchy]

So effectively to take your 16 days annual leave you have to work 16 days over? Therefore meaning you cannot take annual leave? I'd be checking the legality of that with ACAS.

[OneofPansPeople]

Yes, that seems to sum it up.
I'm likely to lose my job if I challenge it, I've not even been there a year.
I'm not letting it go, although I think I need to look for alternatives.
I'll be made to look like a shit with it being a charity.

[ChipotleBlessing]

Join a union

[OneofPansPeople]

I won't be joining a union.
This was supposed to be a pleasant 3 day a week job for a great charity.
Whilst I don't wish to be militant, I also don't want the pee taken.

[TARSCOUT]

You are getting time in lieu instead of paid time?

[OneofPansPeople]

No, in order to get my holiday, I have to work somebody else's shift for them to cover mine.

[justforthecake]

Yeah I don't think that is legal.

[flowery]

Completely unlawful. That’s just changing the days you work, that’s not paid time off.

[titchy]

Can you point out nicely that the effective result of this is that you have no holiday entitlement which is illegal. If they're a small charity it genuinely may not have crossed their minds.

[museumum]

That’s not legal unless you get paid some extra in lieu of holiday? If you do it would be itemised on your contract / payslip.

[ChicCroissant]

Are you a volunteer or a paid worker at the charity, OP?

[ChicCroissant]

Fat fingers, if you have any volunteers are they expected to work extra to cover the paid staff?

[Comefromaway]

Definitely not legal. They can defer your holiday but you must be allowed to take it before the end of your holiday year.

[OneofPansPeople]

@ChicCroissant I'm paid, we have no volunteers.
No extra pay.

[PMTRex]

This is unlawful.

You could show your employer this to remind them of their responsibilities (and your rights) re annual leave:

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

[PotteringAlong]

Don’t dismiss joining a union. It’s not about militancy. It’s about protection when a stunt like this is pulled.

[flowery]

”That’s not legal unless you get paid some extra in lieu of holiday?”

Payment in lieu of holiday is specifically unlawful except at the end of employment. Holiday has to actually be taken.

[Invisimamma]

Are you sure it's not a case of only x number of people can be off at the same time? Rather than you actually have to work all your holiday back again? The later is illegal, the former is just about making sure the office is staffed whilst people are taking leave and that leave is spaced and spread appropriately.

[dontdisturbmenow]

I'm also wondering if you understood correctly. I read what you write to say that you would need to do different shift to cover the person on holiday. So for instance, you work M--T-W and a staff who works W-Th-F is in holiday, you might be asked to work Thursday instead of Monday and another Friday instead of Tuesday. You'd still be working your 21 hours, just on different days?

[museumum]

@flowery - I have a contract with a big prominent university for a bit of teaching on a very very part time and it specifically says they are paying me in lieu of holidays. I can’t imagine it would have passed their lawyers if illegal?
Obviously it wouldn’t be appropriate for anything like a full time job (because you need to take holiday for your health) but for casual hours surely they can’t insist? (I think I’m 0.14FTE).

[flowery]

[quote museumum]@flowery - I have a contract with a big prominent university for a bit of teaching on a very very part time and it specifically says they are paying me in lieu of holidays. I can’t imagine it would have passed their lawyers if illegal?
Obviously it wouldn’t be appropriate for anything like a full time job (because you need to take holiday for your health) but for casual hours surely they can’t insist? (I think I’m 0.14FTE).[/quote]
Don't underestimate how often lawyers get it wrong! Or haven't necessarily signed something off!

There is a specific prohibition on paying in lieu of holidays. With casual workers, what normally happens is they accrue holiday while they are working and then get paid it out when the assignment terminates. If the assignment doesn't terminate then they'd get paid it but would technically be 'on holiday' for some of the time they are not working.

This shouldn't be described as payment in lieu of holiday for the reasons I've said - it's unlawful to do that- it is payment for hours that are not worked because the person is 'on holiday' instead. Hope that makes sense!

[OneofPansPeople]

I have not misunderstood.
No over time will be paid to anyone covering a shift they don't normally work.
If I want Friday and Saturday off, I can only do that if 'Beryl' covers my shifts, but as 'Beryl' won't get paid I would have to do her Monday and Tuesday shifts for example.

[titchy]

With uni staff on short term contracts the annual hours used to calculate your FTE will include holiday hours on top of your teaching/prep/marking hours. That's possibly what you understand as holiday pay.