Redundancy

[Sorryusernamealreadyexists]

Hi all,

It’s looking more and more likely I’ll be made redundant this week as I’m high risk. They have offered another job but due to having to physically be there and current circumstances with schools not going back and zero options for childcare I won’t be able to take it.

Would this be a reason they could decide not to pay me redundancy payment? Or would it be classed as a reasonable reason? Redundancy money would probably tide me over for a couple months and that’s it. Without it I think we will have to claim some form of benefits to be able to buy food etc.

I appreciate that people all over are having this exact problem at the moment but please don’t be harsh on me, I’m hanging on a thread

[TARSCOUT]

You won't be entitled to redundancy as they aren't making your job redundant. You are, regardless of the reason, refusing to work so you're quitting.

[Moondust001]

@TARSCOUT

You won't be entitled to redundancy as they aren't making your job redundant. You are, regardless of the reason, refusing to work so you're quitting.

I don't agree. That isn't what the OP said. She said that they have offered her another job, which kind of suggests her existing job is going.

OP, it won't be clear cut. Assuming the job itself is a reasonable alternative it is possible that the employer could argue that you are refusing unreasonably, because childcare and schools not being back isn't really their problem. But many employers will be ok with a refusal - they don't have to stick to the letter of the law. It depends on whether they want to really push it (and also risk the costs of a tribunal). The best thing to do is to ask them in the first instance. Explaining your circumstances and how difficult it would be in not the same thing as turning down the job. Make it clear that you aren't turning it down and just ask what happens if you can't get the kids back to school / and if you decided against it would they still make you redundant. That way you have choices to make based on real information.

[Sorryusernamealreadyexists]

Sorry I should have said, existing job no longer exists so we had to reapply for it as part of a restructuring. Job offered is not at all the same; couldn’t be any more different.

[wherestheotherone]

This isn't redundancy this is declining a redeployment which in effect is resignation unless you have very very good reason why you cannot do the job offered AND if they can offer you another job. If you say you can't work the job offered then your resigning.

[NaturalBornWoman]

OP post on the employment board, you are getting responses from people who don’t have a clue. Sorry you are facing redundancy, it’s shit.

[Moondust001]

@NaturalBornWoman

OP post on the employment board, you are getting responses from people who don’t have a clue. Sorry you are facing redundancy, it’s shit.

You seem to have a corner on spiteful but unhelpful responses.

OP, you have said that the existing job IS being made redundant since it no longer exists. Redeployment may be an offer of a suitable alternative, but it may not be - nobody can tell you that because we don't know the two jobs. The reason you are giving for not accepting it is that the schools haven't gone back yet and you have no childcare. That is not likely to be viewed in law as an acceptable reason for refusing a suitable alternative job, if it is one. But that doesn't mean your employer must take that view - if they wish to do so then they can simply accept that since they have deleted your post there is no other job for you and pay you redundancy. But they don't have to. Which is why you need to ask them. Don't turn down the job until you have got answers. Then you can make an informed decision.

[Uhoh2020]

I have been in your position it stinks! If your position is made redundant then you will receive redundancy money. You have to go through a consultation period where you weigh up your options ie take the money or take up the other position. By declining the other position does not mean you wont get your redundancy as the new position will mean new/change in contract.
You may be able to take the new position as a trial period and then still take your redundancy after the trial. If you do do this make sure you specify and have it noted in your consultation notes that you are only agreeing to the new role as a trial and may accept redundancy if the new role isn't suitable. I'm speaking from my own experience of this last year.

[NaturalBornWoman]

You seem to have a corner on spiteful but unhelpful responses

What the fuck??? How on earth is pointing the OP to the relevant board where she’s more likely to get correct information and expressing empathy with her redundancy situation either spiteful or unhelpful?

[ilovemydogandmrobama2]

Sorry if this has already been asked/answered, but have you been working from home these past few months? If so, it would be difficult for your employer to say that the job can only be done in the office and not remotely.

Is it customer facing or can you work flexibly? If you are able to work early mornings and late in the evening, would it be worth do condensed hours?

[Sorryusernamealreadyexists]

I was working from home and then I was furloughed, it can be worked flexibly but but they were being stuffy about this, ensuring you send stats at the end of your working days hours despite being able to do things out of hours.

The job they are suggesting as an alternative is production line work.

I’ll ask for it to be moved thank you :)

[ICouldHaveCheckedFirst]

Speak to Acas.

[LilyMumsnet]

We're moving this to employment for the OP.

[RaeCJ82]

Does the "suitable alternative" require a whole different skill set to your redundant role, i.e. are you office/admin based at the moment and the new role is manual, production line work? If so, then you already have grounds to refuse the role.

[Sorryusernamealreadyexists]

@RaeCJ82 yes that’s exactly right.

[Sorryusernamealreadyexists]

TY @LilyMumsnet

[Moondust001]

@NaturalBornWoman

You seem to have a corner on spiteful but unhelpful responses

What the fuck??? How on earth is pointing the OP to the relevant board where she’s more likely to get correct information and expressing empathy with her redundancy situation either spiteful or unhelpful?

Because, as you well know, you've had a.go at me personally without any justification at all and implied I'm a liar elsewhere. I also post on the employment board. And you made it clear that your "advice" was that this advice was wrong. Where's your advice? Other than slagging off people actually helping?

[Bluntness100]

I think they could as it’s a different role but they will likely pay you the redundancy op. It doesn’t appear they are trying to get out of it. They are simply offering an alternate role they think you could do. Your personal limitations don’t come into it for them.

However it then makes you voluntarily redundant which they may differentiate on, I doubt it though as they are looking for people to go.

[Moondust001]

OP, you still need to do what I've told you, no matter what board it is on. Do not either accept not reject the role. Ask the questions. You have a legal right to ask the questions. It's entirely possible that they don't care about who stays or goes, but they have, by law, to make the effort to not make you redundant. Nobody can tell you whether that is the case or not. Ask the questions. See what they say. If you want to leave and they agree, all good? But if you don't want to, or they don't agree, we need to know what is being said to make sense of it.

[RaeCJ82]

Then you are perfectly within your rights to refuse the alternative. It's called a suitable alternative for a reason and an employer cannot make you accept any alternative that they offer if the skills required to perform the job are not comparable. If you're in an admin, office based role now, a manual job on the production line is not comparable.

[RaeCJ82]

And please ignore the response about it not being a redundancy situation. If your job is no longer there it's redundancy. What your company is doing is trying to find you a suitable alternative, which they are required to do in order to ensure their redundancy process is fair. You are saying that the two jobs couldn't be more different. It's therefore reasonable to refuse the job.

[prh47bridge]

@Moondust001 - Looking at the thread, it reads to me as if NaturalBornWoman's post was aimed at wherestheotherone, not you. She was the immediately preceding poster and NaturalBornWoman agreed with you that this is a redundancy situation. Unless there is history that I am not aware of, I am not clear why you assumed she was having a go at you.

[Moondust001]

[quote prh47bridge]@Moondust001 - Looking at the thread, it reads to me as if NaturalBornWoman's post was aimed at wherestheotherone, not you. She was the immediately preceding poster and NaturalBornWoman agreed with you that this is a redundancy situation. Unless there is history that I am not aware of, I am not clear why you assumed she was having a go at you.[/quote]
Because minutes before, it out the blue and for no reason at all, that individual made a spiteful and unnecessary comment about me on another thread. I'm happy to accept that maybe they treat everyone with the same spite.

[SudokuBook]

You won't be entitled to redundancy as they aren't making your job redundant. You are, regardless of the reason, refusing to work so you're quitting

Why do people post such shite when they have zero clue what they are talking about?

[SudokuBook]

This isn't redundancy this is declining a redeployment which in effect is resignation unless you have very very good reason why you cannot do the job offered AND if they can offer you another job. If you say you can't work the job offered then your resigning

Also wrong.

Please stop giving advice on matters you clearly know nothing about.

[flowery]

If your job no longer exists then it is redundancy. They have to look for alternatives, which is what they are doing. If you decline a 'suitable alternative' then you forfeit your entitlement to redundancy pay, but this isn't resignation, it would still be dismissal by reason of redundancy.

Whether a job is a suitable alternative for these purposes depends on a number of factors. It doesn't have to be an exact match for the job you were doing. It needs to be suitable for your skills and experience, and your personal circumstances need to be taken into account.

For example, a job at a different location or with different hours might be a suitable alternative for a young man with no responsibilities, but might not be a suitable alternative for a single mother with childcare responsibilities.

A job can be a different one - for example if you are employed as an administrator and a job as an assistant in the accounts department comes up, and your previous job involved no accounts work but you have done that before and do have those skills, that may well be a suitable alternative.