New employer shafting me?

[Rebecca980]

Hi everyone!

In a bit of a pickle.

I was offered a new job closer to home which meant I could avoid the London commute. Yay!
I was on £45,000 in my previous job. I took a slight pay cut but it evened out to not pay for travel...almost anyway.

The new job asked if I could negotiate a shorter notice period, which I did. I then gave myself a week off unpaid to rest before a new start.

I was beginning to get concerned during coronavirus about the new job. They hadn’t sent me a contract - although I have emails etc to confirm start date, hours, pay etc. I was told over and over again that everything would be fine and that all working from home etc. They kept saying they would chase the contract and apologising.

They are a really reputable company, so I gave them the benefit of a doubt.

Friday was my last day working at my last company. I spoke to new people again to chase the contract. New boss said she thought it had been sent already.....THEN at the end of the day I received an email asking for a call on Monday (today).

Basically, they have said they are in a bit of trouble as a business because of coronavirus and that they would like me to work part time (2.5 days) until lockdown is over - they mentioned ‘June/July’ and that I would go full time ‘in the long term’. Unfortunately, as I wasn’t employed with them on 23rd February I am not entitled to the 80% government help and this was the best they could do.

I’m so upset. Can they do this? It seems incredibly unfair - especially as I have been in constant contact with them, they were aware I was leaving my job....and surely they could have given a heads up during all of this communication so I could perhaps have stayed longer as my old job or just decided to stay there all together and resume my job search after corona.

My husband is a freelancer, so we are reliant on my wage at this time. I literally don’t know what to do....

Oh. And our call was at 9am today and they STILL haven’t sent any form of contract.

I feel like I’ve worked so hard in my career for 15 years to now be left with nothing. No entitlement to government help. We can’t afford to live on a single part-time wage right now.

[anonymum95]

I've been told that you can ask to be furloughed from your previous employer but I'm not sure of the ins and outs of it all, just something you could look into in the mean time if you don't have a contract from your new employer.

[Busydrinkingcoffee1]

If you have already left you can't be furloughed by your previous employer sadly (to previous poster) this would be fraud as you no longer work for them.
Unfortunately yes they can do this, without a contract and as you haven't started they can, and even if you had just started they could have done the same as you have very little employment rights especially when in probation.
I feel for you OP and the timing is crap but you can either accept their part time offer or look into universal credit possibly?

[SouthWestmom]

LBC had a phone in this morning where they seemed to suggest going back to the former employer and asking for a longer notice period I'll try and find it

[Tuesday66]

Why did you hand your notice in before having a new job offer in writing, plus signing the contract?

You've left your old employment, as far as anyone knows, you could well be planning a sabbatical.

Unfortunately, looks like your only option is to grab what they're offering you, with a part-time role. Make sure you have this in writing, along with the contract of you starting full time.

[CloudsCanLookLikeSheep]

Really tough luck, but beggars cant be choosers unfortunately

[flowery]

Nothing you can do. Next time do not resign your job unless and until you have a contract. If you had that then they’d need to get your agreement to vary it or pay any contractual notice period in it if they wanted to withdraw it.

[Rebecca980]

Thanks all.
I feel so stupid. I had been chasing and chasing and all I was getting was reassurances that it was all fine. I stupidly trusted them and then they pull this out.
What stings more is that now we’re all working from home for god knows how long.
I can’t sleep. I don’t know what to do and feel I’ve let my family and myself down.
Already replaced me in my old job so can’t go back either.

[DroppedBoxxedRuth]

You didn't let anyone down.

None of us saw this coming.

I too left a well paying role for a better work life balance one. I'm 3 weeks in and waiting each day to be let go.

Like fuck did I let anyone down - it's just a massive glitch in the matrix.

[Rebecca980]

@DroppedBoxxedRuth Nice way of putting it! But it’s like the Matrix Said “Hey...you wanted work/life balance? You got it!” with an evil cackle.

Just feeling a bit depressed as everything seemed to be going right - for a change. It was nice whilst it lasted I suppose.

I hope everything goes OK for you! I guess you missed the furloughment date too?

[Leobynature]

I think it’s pretty shit of them if it’s a reputable company who has reserves and profits to pay you, then they should honour the verbal agreement . I don’t think I could work for a profitable company who treated me like that in the long run.
I understand you don’t have a contract. Do you have anything in writing confirming your salary/hours worked and start date?

[Rebecca980]

@leobynature I agree! It’s served as a massive red flag early on. Especially as I had some BS from new boss that they ‘thought HR had already sorted my contract’ then this came about.
Yes. I got it through a recruiter - but through them I have accepted job offer with stated start date, hours and salary. And numerous emails putting my stresses at ease from my new boss over the last couple of weeks.
I did read that, actually, the contract starts once you’ve agreed the position. I wonder whether it might be an idea to call citizens advice or something...It certainly has soured something I was really excited to start and made me a little dubious of them.

[Rebecca980]

@Adam0104 I need a gin, not medical supplies. But it’s 5.14am and that would be inappropriate (would it?!). Plus...really?!?! 😂

[Leobynature]

If I was in your shoes I would probably save all those emails and attach them to an email to you new boss and hr saying
Thank you for your offer, however as per attached emails this is what was agreed.

If they confirmed it to you several times in writing than surely this gives you some legal footing (someone more knowledgeable in employment law would be of use).
Although you have agreed, salary and hours. Without a contract you cant dispute finer details such as the remit of your role and responsibilities.

[ElGuardiandenoche]

Check out the Martin Lewis Money program for last week ( it’s on download on Sky). He had someone with a similar situation.

[FairyBatman]

I think that you would potentially be able to go after them for breach of contract, but the. They would just get rid of you.

On balance you might be better trying to tough it out on part time hours for now whilst keeping on looking.

[Mucky1]

You definitely can ask old company to furlough you. The point of it has a to help employees it is all coming from the same pot and doesn't matter to hitch company applies for it. Martian Lewis was really specific about this. 🥰

[Blackdog19]

That is rubbish but I don’t realistically know what you can do about it. They could let you go completely instead. Corona has screwed everything up. The company do sound underhand though.

[Toomboom]

You can go back to your previous employer and ask them to extend your resignation period which will allow them to furlough you. Check out Martin Lewis, he has very good advice on this.

[SnowsInWater]

A contract does not have to be in writing, it's just easier to prove if it is. I would argue that you do have a contract with them if you had agreed a salary and a start date. Do you have the offer (or anything) in writing? Unless employment law has changed massively (I am no longer in the UK) employers only have to give you an outline of your terms and conditions in writing anyway, eg hours of work, salary etc.

The trouble with all of this is that as a new employee you have bugger all employment rights so it's not hard to let you go. Only you know how far you think you can push them. Good luck.

[flowery]

” You definitely can ask old company to furlough you. The point of it has a to help employees it is all coming from the same pot and doesn't matter to hitch company applies for it. Martian Lewis was really specific about this.”

Oh good grief I really wish people would stop listening to that man as if he is now some kind of employment law expert, I really do. The amount of trouble he has caused the HR profession this week is beyond belief at a time we’re all working every hour god sends already.

The purpose of the scheme is to save jobs that would otherwise have been lost because of this very specific situation. The clue is in the name- the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme. The reason it can be applied to ex employees is so that staff who had already been made redundant due to Coronavirus but before the scheme was announced can be rehired and furloughed instead.

The JRS is not for people who left their job for other reasons, people whose job is perfectly safe and busy but they have childcare issues, or anything else.

Given the scheme involves HMRC giving out money, it would be utterly foolhardy of any employer to assume, without any basis for doing so, that when the legislation comes out, the government will change the stated nature and intention of the scheme and apply it more broadly as a way of getting as many people as possible paid at 80%. It would similarly be downright foolish of employers to furlough people where the stated aims of the scheme don’t apply, thinking that HMRC won’t know so it won’t matter.

HMRC is going to be handing out £millions of taxpayers money. They are absolutely going to be doing plenty of audits in the future, making sure the claims made were entirely legitimate. Defrauding the taxman is very serious business and although we’re getting all and sundry banging on our door at the moment demanding to be furloughed “because Martin Lewis says I can be”, fortunately most employers aren’t stupid enough to risk HMRC trouble.

OP you have a contract with the new employer of sorts, and this (or withdrawing it) would technically be a breach of it. But not the kind of breach it would be worth doing anything about. Statutory notice right at the beginning of employment is nothing. So to keep to the terms of a contract that they will employ you, all they’d have to do is allow you to turn up on day one and sack you immediately with no notice. That would be within a contract so withdrawing the offer (or in your case changing it) beforehand instead represents no loss for you as compared to if they kept to the contract terms.

[bowchicawowwow]

@flowery I completely agree with you. Martin Lewis needs to stop with his awful advice. He's going to ruin it for the genuine furlough cases and he is making the lives of HR professionals hell at the moment. I have seen employees that have been dismissed for gross misconduct approaching us to be put back on the payroll. Every time that someone says 'Martin Lewis says...' I want to scream at the moment. He is normally spot on with his advice but not this time!

[WellThisIsABitShiteIsntIt]

I'm not sure where you've heard Martin Lewis give out incorrect advice. I've read and listened to his 'furlough' advice and it seems spot on to me. I suspect it's the people listening to him that are making the mistakes and not him. He is irritating though 😅
David Bartlett is much better (and he has a much nicer voice)

OP, I am NO expert etc but how about trying a middle ground and just trying to push the amount of days they have offered you up a bit. Maybe you could get them to agree 3 or even more days.

[Rebecca980]

Hi all,
Yes - I have an offer and an acceptance in writing. But you’re all right that it means bugger all and they could just sack me without reason or notice at any point anyway. I guess I’m just stuffed!
I may ask about the furloughment thing from my previous employer - in full knowledge that they won’t go for it. But can’t hurt.
If we weren’t on a lockdown I’d just say bugger it and look for something else, but literally nobody is hiring right now. So worried about the impact this is going to have on my career and ultimately life for the foreseeable!
Still no contract this morning either. Which grates too. I would have expected after dropping that bombshell they would at least try and fast track this out to me as soon as possible.
Meh. What can I do, eh? I’ll sulk one more day and hopefully tomorrow will be brighter.