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Redundancy may be cancelled - question on bonuses/renegotiation

(13 Posts)
jackstini Fri 13-Mar-20 10:01:22

Found out end of October the company was moving to a new business model so was put on risk of redundancy and went through consultation
Had 2 meetings and my redundancy was confirmed in writing in November. 3 months' notice so leaving date due to be in Feb but the company asked me to stay for a further 12 weeks to help transition the business to the new model, so leave in May
On top of the statutory redundancy, they confirmed an extra weekly amount as an incentive to stay on for those 12 extra weeks and a lump sum bonus tied to objectives to do with the transition, both to be paid with my final month's pay along with the redundancy payment, so tax free
We now have a new CEO who has said he wants to change the decision to move to the new model and keep the old one, so very likely my redundancy will be stopped and I will be asked to stay

Understand I would not get any redundancy payment in this case, but should I still get the extra payments and the bonus? (I have achieved the objectives, although will now have to work to undo them all!)

I haven't pre-spent any of the money, but have taken it into account when making various decisions and although would be great to stay in this job, I will be financially worse off than leaving and going elsewhere

Also out of 8 people they made redundant, 6 have already left. My role would therefore be slightly different so should I be renegotiating terms based on that?

I have a call tonight with the CEO where I think he will give a final decision, probably followed by a call with HR. (They are in US, I am UK based)
Just want to get my head straight first regarding my options, anything I should ask...

OP’s posts: |
Lumene Fri 13-Mar-20 10:05:38

Sounds complicated. Ring ACAS for free advice.

Poppyfr33 Fri 13-Mar-20 10:05:52

Contact ACAS

jackstini Fri 13-Mar-20 10:14:20

Spoken to ACAS and they were pretty useless unfortunately sad

Asked if I had details in writing (I do) but could not advise on my specific question re bonus/incentive payment

OP’s posts: |
AlphaHotelFoxtrot Fri 13-Mar-20 10:54:18

Are you in a union? They may be able to help

flowery Fri 13-Mar-20 11:06:33

If the extra payments were specifically for staying on a set time in advance of redundancy, and that situation no longer applies, I imagine they could retract them, same as they've retracted the redundancy. Plus if they were paying it tax-free with redundancy, it must be a termination payment, not money earned as part of your contract of employment in the course of doing your job, otherwise it would be taxable.

jackstini Fri 13-Mar-20 11:42:31

@AlphaHotelFoxtrot - I am not in a union, no. Will look into if there is one for my industry for future

@flowery - one payment was for completing objectives to do with the transition (done, but will now need to reverse them)
The other was an amount per week to stay for the 12 weeks after the date my 3 months notice would have given as a leaving date
I would not have stayed past February without the promise of that extra money to cover the extra hassle

OP’s posts: |
Wiaa Fri 13-Mar-20 16:11:59

Not sure if it helps but my sil was in a similar situation and she still recieved all her stay on longer payments when the company was sold rather than closed.

flowery Fri 13-Mar-20 16:16:51

Well, the argument you'd use if they don't pay you is that you were contractually entitled to those payments, so an argument that it's a breach of contract. Their argument will be that the only reason for the additional payments was redundancy, and that where the redundancy doesn't exist, there is no entitlement. The fact they were seemingly going to pay them as a tax free termination payment strengthens their case somewhat.

Did you work extra hours to do these objectives? If so, of course they have to pay you for those. If it was just working your normal hours that's more difficult to argue.

When you say you wouldn't have stayed past February, does that mean you turned down another job in order to stay on?

EBearhug Sat 14-Mar-20 01:32:55

I am not in a union, no. Will look into if there is one for my industry for future

The TUC website has a union finder tool. If your employer doesn't have a recognised union, it will either suggest a relevant one, or point you at one of the general uninsured

EBearhug Sat 14-Mar-20 01:33:43

*general unions, not uninsured. Stupid phone!

daisychain01 Sun 15-Mar-20 04:57:19

Understand I would not get any redundancy payment in this case, but should I still get the extra payments and the bonus? (I have achieved the objectives, although will now have to work to undo them all!)

My understanding is that they should pay you the extra payment and bonus because those were specific to tasks they've set and they've theoretically gained the benefit from your effort (albeit the context has now changed). It sounds like you have objective evidence that you've accomplished the tasks they set, and that you delivered.

The fact they've now decided to reverse their decision isn't of your making. The extra payments and bonus would be taxable, as they are nothing to do with you losing your job through the elimination of your role.

They'd be foolish not to pay you what they promised if they want you to stay. Did they give you anything in writing? Or any email referring to the extra tasks that could evidence what you delivered?

filka Sun 15-Mar-20 06:06:30

Cutting through all the history, you said "although would be great to stay in this job, I will be financially worse off than leaving and going elsewhere". So this should be the main thrust of your negotiation. A few months of extra money can't compare to a higher salary for the foreseeable future. Though I do understand that the prospect of a tax-free lump sum and the higher salary could be the best deal.

Anyway, it's Sunday and you were going to have the conversation on Friday night, so....?

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