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Accured Holidays & Holiday Pay

(34 Posts)
missnatalie Mon 03-Sep-07 20:05:29

Can anyone please tell me if this is correct as im totally confused.

DP has recently had a pay rise and last week he was off on Annual Leave. On Friday when he was paid it looked like he had been paid short. He has been to his payrole dept today and they told him that his wage on friday was for the week that he had already worked and a week of holiday at his old rate of pay. They said that the reason his holiday was paid at the old rate is because they were accured before his pay rise. Is this right?

I recently had a pay rise too and my holiday pay has increased with it even though it was accured ages ago. Im totaly confused now. Does anyone have any advice.

Thanks

flowerybeanbag Mon 03-Sep-07 20:39:33

Hmm, interesting. I can't find anything specific in the law about this, will have another look.
However did find something saying that being on holiday should not affect payslip. That sounds right, otherwise your DP is being disadvantaged financially by taking his holiday later, which can't be right.

As I say, I can't yet find anything specific in law saying this though. I'll keep looking but bumping in case anyone is there who does know off the top of their head.

flowerybeanbag Mon 03-Sep-07 20:43:43

DH has helpfully pointed out that can't be right.
Because, if your DP took all his holiday for the year before his pay rise mid-year, would he get money back for those days which would have been accrued after his pay rise. No chance!

flowerybeanbag Mon 03-Sep-07 20:45:48

Have found something.

Holiday pay is the amount which would be due for the same amount of work under the worker's contract.
So if your DP's contract now says he gets paid X per year instead of Y, he should continue to be paid X when on holiday, regardless of when holiday was accrued.

BetsyBoop Mon 03-Sep-07 20:52:03

does your DP get the same amount each week or does his salary vary?

If it's the same amount then I'm pretty sure it should be paid at his current (new) rate.

If it varies then his holiday pay will be based on the average of his previous 12 weeks - so would be at the "old" rate IYKWIM

BetsyBoop Mon 03-Sep-07 20:54:43

just found this on the ACAS site here

How is a week's pay calculated?

For each week of their statutory leave entitlement workers are entitled to be paid a week's pay calculated in accordance with sections 221-224 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 as follows:

Workers with normal working hours

- If a worker's pay does not vary with the amount of work done then a week's pay is the amount due for a week's work under the worker's contract. Pay for non contractual overtime is excluded.

- If a worker's pay varies with the amount of work done then the amount of a week's pay is the pay for the normal weekly working hours multiplied by the workers average hourly rate over the preceding 12 weeks. This may occur under a piece work, bonus or commission system. To calculate the average hourly rate only hours where the worker was working, and the pay related to them, should be taken into account. Overtime hours can be included although pay for these hours should be adjusted to the normal rate. Any week in which no pay was due, for hours worked, should be replaced by the last previous week in which pay was received for hours worked.

- Shift and rota workers, whose pay varies because they work their normal hours at varying times and in varying amounts in different weeks, have their week's pay calculated differently. Their average weekly hours of work, in the preceding twelve weeks, are multiplied by their average hourly rate. The hourly rate is calculated as above and includes any shift allowance which is payable.

Workers with no normal working hours

- If a worker has no normal working hours then a week's pay is the average pay received over the preceding 12 weeks. Any week for which no pay was due should be replaced by the last previous week for which pay was due.
-------

the key bit is "a week's pay is the amount due for a week's work under the worker's contract." - i.e. the current (new) rate in his contract of employment.

missnatalie Tue 04-Sep-07 17:16:03

Wow!! Thanks for all of the replies. Went to bead early last night and only just logged back on. Thanks everyone. I didnt think that it sounded right but wanted to double check with you guys. To be honest i think that there trying to get away with paying him as little as possible. Im going to print the info off and get DP to take it to payroll. I think the mention of ACAS will make them give in. Thanks again

missnatalie Tue 04-Sep-07 17:18:27

Oops for got to answer your questions. DP pay is the same each week. He's on £80 per day, so im assuming he should be paid £80 for each day A/L. Is that right?

missnatalie Tue 04-Sep-07 17:28:59

Just phoned ACAS and they said that DP needs to request the money in writing. His employer has 28 days to give it to him / or respond (cant remember which one she said). If they dont and nothing changes he can take them to tribunal. There very on the ball at ACAS arnt they. She stopped me half way through telling the story and told me what to do.

Any suggestions on what we should put in the leter. Im rubbish at writing letters and want to make it sound scary to them grin.

flowerybeanbag Tue 04-Sep-07 17:33:02

They are good, yes.
I would keep it fairly simple, just say you have taken professional advice and you understand that when an employee is on holiday he or she must by law be paid at their normal rate as per their contract. [DH] has received his pay whilst on holiday and has found that it is not his normal payrate.


Then say something like 'I look forward to your early response in this matter.'

flowerybeanbag Tue 04-Sep-07 17:34:27

Oh sorry, before the last bit say something like
'following the advice I have taken regarding the law about holiday, I am requesting that the difference is paid to me immediately' (or something like that)

flowerybeanbag Tue 04-Sep-07 17:35:02

the law about holiday pay

can you tell I am doing 16 things at once? grin

VeniVidiVickiQV Tue 04-Sep-07 17:39:04

It is time accrued, it doesnt matter when it was taken so pay rises are irrelevant.

If that is what his payroll dept are doing now, he needs to keep an eye out in October when the law changes with regard to the amount of statutory holiday he is entitled to if he only gets the bare basic now....

missnatalie Tue 04-Sep-07 17:39:21

Thanks flowerybeanbag. I'll get it done now. Im getting all excited about this. DP employer gets away with so much, its about time someone hit back. They probably havnt got a clue what there doing. The whole company is run by men. Even the receptionist is a man grin

missnatalie Tue 04-Sep-07 17:58:08

How does this look? Remember im rubbish at writing letter.

Dear,

Following on from the conversation I had with one of your employees on 3rd September 2007 in regards to my holiday pay, I now write to inform you that I have taken professional advice.

The advice was given to me by ACAS who have confirmed that when an employee is on holiday, he or she must by law be paid at their normal rate of pay.

Whilst on holiday I received my old rate of pay (£40 per day), when it should have been the new rate (£80 per day). ACAS have told me that it doesn’t matter when the holiday was accrued, it should be paid at the new rate.

Following this advice, I am requesting that the difference be paid to me immediately.

I look forward to your early response in this matter.

Yours sincerely,

VeniVidiVickiQV Tue 04-Sep-07 18:55:12

I have changed it a bit, see what you think....

Dear,

Further to the conversation I had with one of your employees on 3rd September 2007, with regard to my holiday pay, I now write to inform you that I have taken professional advice.

The advice given to me has confirmed that when an employee takes paid annual leave, he or she must, by law, be paid at their normal rate of pay i.e. the rate of pay at the time the leave was taken.

I was also told that it is irrelevant what the pay rate was when the annual leave was accrued.

I was also advised that the statutory leave that I am entitled to increases with effect 1st October 2007, and look forward to receiving confirmation of any additional paid leave that I am entitled to.

Whilst on holiday I received my old rate of pay (£40 per day), when it should have been the new rate (£80 per day).

Following the advice I have been given, I am requesting that the difference be paid to me immediately.

I look forward to your early response in this matter.

Yours sincerely,

VeniVidiVickiQV Tue 04-Sep-07 18:57:36

I should have previewed.....

Dear,

Further to the conversation I had with one of your employees on 3rd September 2007 with regard to my holiday pay, I now write to inform you that I have taken professional advice.

The advice given to me has confirmed that when an employee takes paid annual leave, he or she must, by law, be paid at their normal rate of pay i.e. the rate of pay at the time the leave was taken. It is irrelevant what the pay rate was when the annual leave was accrued.

I was also advised that the statutory leave that I am entitled to, increases with effect 1st October 2007. I look forward to receiving confirmation of any additional paid leave that I am entitled to in due course.

Whilst on holiday I received my old rate of pay (£40 per day), when it should have been the new rate (£80 per day).

Following the advice I have been given, I am requesting that the difference be paid to me immediately.

I look forward to your early response in this matter.

Yours sincerely,

flowerybeanbag Tue 04-Sep-07 19:23:20

good stuff Miss Nat and liking VVVQV's amendments as well. Go for that and see what happens, and let us know

missnatalie Tue 04-Sep-07 20:06:47

Thank you both. He's tsking the letter in later this week so ill let you know how he gets on.

BetsyBoop Wed 05-Sep-07 08:43:57

hope he gets it sorted.

missnatalie Wed 12-Sep-07 20:09:26

Ok DP took the letter into Payroll and they said because his payments are under the JIB Construction scheme (hes a plumbing & heating engineer), what ACAS said doesnt apply. They said it only applies if he is doing a normal job i.e. working in a office or shop? hmm

I have no idea and DP has no idea what they are talking about. Were both totaly confused AGAIN.

Anyone got any ideas?

missbumpy Wed 12-Sep-07 21:49:18

Why on earth would it be different because he's under the JIB construction scheme? Sounds like they're making it up as they go along! I'd get DP to go back and say he doesn't understand how that affects his situation and he'd like them to outline it all in writing to help clarify the situation.

flowerybeanbag Thu 13-Sep-07 10:55:24

missnat that sounds like utter rubbish to me. I have no idea what the JIB construction scheme is, but I can't think of any reason why any scheme would affect the law. Either they don't have a clue what they are talking about (very likely) or they are making up a load of rubbish to fob him off.

prettybird Thu 13-Sep-07 11:11:44

Why not ring ACAS and ask them?

I also found this https://www.amicustheunion.org.uk/default.aspx?page=1024 - see item 10, so I think they are talking rubbish, especially as the Section 221-224 of the Emplyment Rights Act are the ones that have already been quoted earlier in this thread.

missnatalie Thu 13-Sep-07 11:35:10

Im going to give ACAS a call this afternoon and see what they say.

Prettybird - what youve found is very interesting. Im going to print it off so that he can take it into them.

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