Redundancy advice

(24 Posts)
RainbowMum11 Fri 23-Aug-19 23:11:38

Hi
I need some specialist help please - I do have a call in to an employment solicitor and will try CAB on Tues, but it would be good to have an idea of my position before then if possible.
I have been with my company for a long time, and in a senior position for over 11 years, an integral part of the management of the business in the UK.
EU-owned company (now, wasn't when I first joined), 2 UK companies but I was heavily involved in both (with a legal officer position in each).
Loads more detail but don't want to put too much here.
Had been off sick for a while, partly due to long term work pressures, however having started a phased RTW, I have received an email basically saying I am going to be redundant - I'm not the only one, bit of a restructure but I'm the only one who does my full job.
The fact is though, my role is not redundant at all; they have employed someone else in the other UK company with (mainly) my same job title although he hasn't got the necessary qualifications and experience.
So, my question is, as the 2 Co are so closely linked, do you think I have a case against them? The role is nowhere near redundant, the company can't operate without someone in my position.
I don't want to work for them anymore after this, but after years and years of loyalty to the detriment of my personal relationships, I don't want to let them treat me like shit - especially as the other management in the UK are absolutely shocked and really don't know how they are going to manage if I'm not there (not being big headed, just know so much after so many years there, and I covered many areas).

OP’s posts: |
flowery Sat 24-Aug-19 06:35:47

So currently there are two people doing this work, you in your company and the other person in the other company? And your company is saying they are removing your role? So they are going to effectively outsource that work to the other company?

RainbowMum11 Sat 24-Aug-19 20:56:30

Yes kind of - I covered the work (& a lot more outside of the title) for both companies. The new bloke has been taken on with the same job title but not covering all the areas that I did, by the other company.

OP’s posts: |
RainbowMum11 Sat 24-Aug-19 21:11:11

The guy was only recruited recently but isn't qualified & experienced in the same areas.
I have been off sick, big part to work issues and he was employed, by the other UK Co recently but while I was off. Now, my position is redundant apparently.
While I have been off (& even now with the new person) there is no-one that can do everything that I did, particularly in mind with the other people they are making redundant.

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daisychain01 Sun 25-Aug-19 07:01:29

I don't want to work for them anymore after this, but after years and years of loyalty to the detriment of my personal relationships, I don't want to let them treat me like shit

I would think carefully about your end goal here, given what you've said. Why expend effort fighting them over it not being a "real redundancy", ie what additional benefit are you hoping to gain? If you've got a long service history I'd be focussing attention on ensuring you get the best deal possible according to their company redundancy policy.

Redundancy can sometimes be a very timely exit strategy with significant financial gain, particularly if you have strong transferable skills and experience and can secure a new post quickly. You could negotiate a "more than factual" reference which includes the reason for redundancy being due to restructuring and that you have been a loyal trustworthy employee.

Lindy2 Sun 25-Aug-19 07:15:37

My DH was in pretty much the same position as this earlier this year. The company created a more or less identical role to his with a few tweaks. The role paid less than his. A few months later he was notified he was at risk of redundancy as surprise surprise the lower paid role was now going to do his job.
He spoke to CAB and ACAS who confirmed it was disgraceful behaviour by his employer but that there were probably enough little tweaks to say it was not an identical role.
He took redundancy with a very nice payoff as he had over 20 years of service. He found a new role very quickly which no longer involves 12 hour days and ever increasing stress.
The person who took his old role quit very quickly and there is now no experienced person left there who knows what to do.
I hope it works out for you but redundancy can be a good thing.

KatherineJaneway Sun 25-Aug-19 07:48:36

I agree with a pp, what exactly do you want the outcome to be? The company will not admit any wrongdoing or unfavourable behaviour towards you due to what spends like a prolonged period of sickness. The only options I can see are for you to take the redundancy on offer (I'd ask for a redundancy estimate so you know how much it will be) or negotiate a settlement agreement. However either of those two will not resolve any feelings of injustice or unfairness.

KatherineJaneway Sun 25-Aug-19 07:49:03

* Sounds not spends

daisychain01 Sun 25-Aug-19 08:08:43

Redundancy is a much more advantageous starting point for negotiation than a settlement agreement, particularly for long service employees because things like pension can be enhanced according to age and the employee is often compensated for loss of benefits like health care and company car.

daisychain01 Sun 25-Aug-19 08:10:51

I'd say a big fat tax free redundancy payment in the OPs bank account will do a nice job of resolving the feeling of injustice @KatherineJaneway grin

swingofthings Sun 25-Aug-19 09:22:48

If you don't want to work there any longer, surely an offer of being made redundant is a god send timely offer. I don't get what you're upset about. The alternatives is they make you work even more pressurising until you leave, or if off work longer dismiss you on capability grounds.

You don't want to be there, thry don't want you and are prepared to pay you to go, what's not to be relieved about ?

KatherineJaneway Sun 25-Aug-19 12:14:20

@daisychain01 Good point grin

RainbowMum11 Sun 25-Aug-19 13:01:35

Yep - I want a decent settlement out of it!
I know what the statutory is, plus notice pay & accrued holidays etc.
I agree that it will be a positive for me ultimately but I'm a single parent so need to ensure I have as much as possible to keep us going until I find something else.

OP’s posts: |
RainbowMum11 Sun 25-Aug-19 13:02:54

I don't want to work there any more because of this & the way they have dealt with it - was quite happy and positive about it before.

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KatherineJaneway Sun 25-Aug-19 14:12:06

Then I'd gather all your evidence and talk to an employment lawyer. They can tell you the best way to get the best settlement or to take redundancy.

Good luck.

daisychain01 Sun 25-Aug-19 15:04:38

To contain your legal cost, as you don't want to have your hard earned redundancy eaten away by unnecessary legal fees:-

1. Use your forthcoming solicitor's consultation (approx £200 + VAT) to discuss viable options.

2. If you decide to go for the redundancy offered by your employer, you could use your chosen solicitor to review the redundancy proposal document provided by your employer. It is very common to recoup the review fee from your employer as part of the severance package, amounting to £250-£400 + VAT, as it is in the employer's best interests that the outgoing employee signs it as a fair deal, to mitigate the risk of them making a later claim.

Be wary of a solicitor advising you to take action against your employer regarding the circumstances of the redundancy that you outline upthread. If you have a fair redundancy offer being made by your employer, it would be foolhardy,mexpensive and stressful to lock horns with your employer unless you have tangible evidence that you are severely at a disadvantage financially and career-wise.

Tribunal aims to reinstate the Claimant back to a cost-neutral situation, but that does not include the costs incurred to get you there. Rarely if ever are legal costs awarded from the Respondent. I'm sure a decent solicitor is not going to send you down an erroneous path, it would be against their code of practice, but it's worth being aware they could mention it as a option even if you rule it out.

ChicCroissant Sun 25-Aug-19 15:12:20

If you don't want to go back, why would you fight a redundancy? Have they made you an offer yet?

Your reasoning about your job doesn't really add up - they have managed while you have been off and what they do with the role after you leave isn't really your concern.

It would be worthwhile agreeing a reference with them before you go, especially if you've had a long period of sickness absence. But it doesn't sound worth fighting them to me.

flowery Sun 25-Aug-19 17:03:48

”While I have been off (& even now with the new person) there is no-one that can do everything that I did, particularly in mind with the other people they are making redundant.”

But your employer is allowed to make the business decision to not have anyone doing your role. If they are going to recruit a replacement then the case that your role is redundant is obviously shaky. But if they don’t, that’s ok. Whether a business decision to remove a certain role Is a sensible one or not isn’t a factor in determining the fairness or otherwise of a redundancy dismissal. You may think your employer won’t “manage” without you, but that’s their lookout.

RainbowMum11 Sun 25-Aug-19 21:52:46

I know, I do understand that, but while I was off, I was still contacted a lot & the fact is that they didn't manage without me - it's all a complete mess.
I know that it isn't my concern how they cope without me, but the people who are left will have to cope with it and I still have loyalty to them.

OP’s posts: |
RainbowMum11 Sun 25-Aug-19 21:53:31

Legally, they need someone to do at least a part of my role though....

OP’s posts: |
flowery Mon 26-Aug-19 01:22:45

”Legally, they need someone to do at least a part of my role though....”

Presumably you are technically in consultation at the moment, in which case this is one of the questions to ask- what exactly is happening to the work you are doing currently.

KatherineJaneway Mon 26-Aug-19 11:00:45

I know, I do understand that, but while I was off, I was still contacted a lot & the fact is that they didn't manage without me - it's all a complete mess.
I know that it isn't my concern how they cope without me, but the people who are left will have to cope with it and I still have loyalty to them.

You have to disengage. It is hard but you have to. They believe they can do without you, you won't be able to change their minds. You have no control over what happens after you go.

I've been in a similar situation to you, it was difficult because I, like you, are contentious. However I had to disengage and walk away. It was hard as I knew it would not work out what they had proposed but I had to leave them to it.

daisychain01 Mon 26-Aug-19 14:05:35

I know that it isn't my concern how they cope without me, but the people who are left will have to cope with it and I still have loyalty to them.

Sorry if it sounds harsh, but you are a single parent, your loyalty is far better placed with your family than work colleagues who are unlikely to benefit from you singlehandedly fighting a crusade about what will happen with your work when you've left.

The decisions being made are wholly the responsibility of the officers of the company with authority to do that. Be it on their head if they make the wrong decision. If anyone needs to show loyalty to employees it's them.

KatherineJaneway Mon 26-Aug-19 17:27:09

* I meant conscientious! Sorry OP blush

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